Asking for advice with my sps.

chirocato · #1 09/27/2007, 01:01 PM

I've been having color loss issues for months with my new system. All my sps are pastel like color. My temp swings are about 2 degrees over the course of a day. Do you think that's too much? I know sps are finicky. Also, all my display lighting is HO T5's on Icecaps. Seems funny but I have a non-overdriven Current T5 fixture on my frag tank and the same corals get much more colorful with the same bulbs. I don't get it.

They are all part of the same system. The only difference is the lighting over the tanks. IDK. Considering down grading my ballasts so they are normal output just to see what happens. I didn't think there is such a thing as too much light but now I'm wondering. My clams are thriving with new growth and are about 16" under the surface. Lights are 3" above surface.

Tank specs: 60 x 24 x 24
Water params:
PO4=0.02 (photometer)
NO3=0
SG=1.025
Temp=79-81
Ca=420
Mg=1300
dKH=9.6

Flow=~50x turnover (2 VorTechs & OM4/Dart) I also run phosban Rx and carbon. All topoff is PM kalk Rx. Additional equip is listed below in my profile.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

capn_hylinur · #2 09/27/2007, 01:04 PM

my first thought would have been phosphates--but they are ok
Next might be other DOC's---are you running carbon?

Can you post a picture of the tank and some of the corals--it would help

amcarrig · #3 09/27/2007, 01:59 PM

Have you checked for red bugs cato?

chirocato · #4 09/27/2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amcarrig
Have you checked for red bugs cato?

Yeah, nothing. Treated everything a while back and haven't seen one since.

Here are some pics from May. I will take some new ones tonight when I get home from the office. Growth is excellent, just poor color. Crappy camera doesn't help either.

Couple things I am aware of is sps are mostly frags. Tank is still only 7mos old. So, maybe it's a time thing. All rock is over 18mos old from previous tanks. Have also been thinking of swapping out the T5's and trying 2-250w HQI's. The wife will just love to hear that.

hans1976 · #5 09/27/2007, 02:34 PM

If you need to borrow a real camera, let me know...

amcarrig · #6 09/27/2007, 02:42 PM

tough crowd

capn_hylinur · #7 09/27/2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chirocato
Yeah, nothing. Treated everything a while back and haven't seen one since.

Here are some pics from May. I will take some new ones tonight when I get home from the office. Growth is excellent, just poor color. Crappy camera doesn't help either. Couple things I am aware of is sps are mostly frags. Tank is still only 7mos old. So, maybe it's a time thing. All rock is over 18mos old from previous tanks. Have also been thinking of swapping out the T5's and trying 2-250w HQI's. The wife will just love to hear that.

You have good results on the parameters but how consistent have they been over the last two months.

Probably an inane question but have you been feeding them cyclopeeze?

capn_hylinur · #8 09/27/2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amcarrig
tough crowd

he's been around long enough to know how to work the crowd_LOL

chirocato · #9 09/27/2007, 06:42 PM

Well, honestly the past 2 months have been pretty stable. Up until then things were up and down. Setting up Ca Rx and Kalk Rx and then dialing them in. That's why I thought I'd see improvements by now.

2crazyreefers · #10 09/27/2007, 07:37 PM

I have non overdriven HO on our mixed 120 and get much better colors on the acros than on our 180 sps halide tank.

mikeatjac · #11 09/27/2007, 08:10 PM

Just want to know what cyclopeeze would have to do with this.

chirocato · #12 09/27/2007, 08:30 PM

Oh, and I feed frozen cyclopeeze now and then as well as DT oyster eggs now and then but not on a reg basis.

chirocato · #13 09/27/2007, 08:55 PM

These pics didn't come out so good. Will try to get some better ones tomorrow. Sorry.

barjam · #14 09/28/2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

They are all part of the same system.

So they share the same water? If the only difference is the amount of lighting sounds like you need less lighting on the display. *shrug*

Are the corals in the frag tank at roughly the same depth as the display?

wentreefgirl · #15 09/28/2007, 05:48 AM

mikeatjac -Because sometimes when you feed the tank regularly the colors pop more. I think you need to go with metal halides. They need those for fast growth anyway. Sorry wife. Or a combo of both. Also maybe slow down on the carbon. That can fade colors. Otherwise looking good.

capn_hylinur · #16 09/28/2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikeatjac
Just want to know what cyclopeeze would have to do with this.

there has been some talk on RC that sps's enjoy a nutrient rich water level surrounding them. Super effecient filtration system can reduce the level of DOC's to a point where it effects the health of the corals.
I realize by far that the brillant colours of sps are a direct result of lighting but there are other factors, like phosphates which are documented to brown sps corals.
From first hand knowledge--Tank of the Month for June---d. J. feeds his coral cyclopeeze on a regular basis, even though he swears by pristine water conditions and 3--450 watt mh's:

mikeatjac · #17 09/29/2007, 06:49 AM

I do not think cyclopeeze is an SPS food. To large IMO. Cyclopeeze is a fantastic food for LPS, fish that don't want to eat.

However, for SPS I think better choices would be something like Phytofeast, Rotifers, DTs Phyto or even another fish.

I agree that we should look at feeding the tank and not the fish. However, I do not believe in putting something in my tank that serves no purpose.

If your SPS corals look fadded I would feed them. Feed them something they can use.

wentreefgirl · #18 09/29/2007, 08:58 AM

I believe there is contraversy whether sps even eat at all. It is said they get most of their nutrition from the lights. I was referring to cyclopese as feeding the tank inhabitants and there fore their tank runoff feeding the sps. In form of urine. My fish eat cyclopese even though it is rather small for the fish. ANd my sps like it too as well as my serpant stars and crabs.

barjam · #19 09/29/2007, 09:08 AM

This is a loooong shot...

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=1

But check that out, what bulb combo do you have? Looks like it may be the standard aquablue/blue plus combo, impossible to tell from pictures.

After reading that thread I put in a 6500k to see if the warmer colors helped any.

I tried feeding the corals, some (A. Nana for example) got a little browner (tip color didn't budge), Green stag got more blah, and creme/green polyp stag had no change. Montis also showed no change.

Do the metal halide folks ever have this "pale" color issue? I have seen it quite a few times on T5 tanks but never on a MH tank, even underlit MH tanks. It seems to me that if a coral in a MH tank isn't getting enough par it just browns out, yes? If I shade a SPS in my tank that is what it does (browns out).

So my current theories are:

1. T5 spectrum is all wrong in some combos, I find this hard to believe because IWAN and some of the European tanks I have seen run the exact same bulb combo I have.
2. T5s are too bright over a larger area for the corals, again I just don't believe that.
3. I am a complete newb and should stick to cichlids.

barjam · #20 09/29/2007, 09:14 AM

Oh, on a side note when I first started with Sps I put the corals as high as I could in my tank because I knew I didn't have enough light (4x54 on a 75). At the time I only had a A. Nana type coral and a orange cap. Orange cap turned pink, A. Nana turned really pale. After changing my rockwork around the A. Nana ended up about halfway up and the orange cap ended up about 1/3 partially shaded. The A. Nana's colors look better and the orange cap turned orange and started growing faster. I did the pink cap look so I put a frag up high and it has remained pink, grows slowly though.

I have recently been trying to purple up purple brown digi and can't do it, not enough light I guess.

Who knows

mikeatjac · #21 09/29/2007, 10:52 AM

wentreefgirl "In form of urine". This is hard to buy.

I do believe that fish waste feeds corals however.

All you have to do is run a low nutrient tank and your corals will pale up. There are many methods that do this and then start feeding bacterium to bring the colors back.

HBtank · #22 09/29/2007, 11:10 PM

I am having simlar issues with Icecaps. From all my observations it seems to be to much light...

I am still narrowing it down. Adjusting photoperiod did not help.

If it ends up being true I will go to HO.

barjam · #23 09/30/2007, 10:32 AM

Mine aren't overdriven but I did get icecap SLRs in which moved the lights from evenly spread over the tank (75) to tightly clustered over the center. Of course this killed or mamed all the darker colored zoos in the tank (they happened to be within this track of light, at the bottom. *sigh*.