need return pump suggestions

Aaron1100us · #1 08/02/2007, 05:10 AM

I need some help finding a return pump. Sump will be in basement with at least a 15 foot vertical and 25 foot horizontal plumbing with 1 inch PVC pipe. 5 90 degree bends or 10 45 degree bends will be used with two ball valves. I'd like 300-600 gph at a 15 foot head. I know there are some nice expensive pumps out there but I don't really want to spend a fortune. One that is easy on the electricty would be nice too. I've looked at the head loss calculator on here but can't decide what to get. I'm guessing there are probably more pumps available than are whats listed there. I was thinking of the Gen X Mak 4 but I've been reading some bad things about them. Thanks

sjm817 · #2 08/02/2007, 07:37 AM

I'm using the Mak4 in my Basement sump and am very pleased with it. Great pump for a modest price. Its only $120 from Premium Aquatics. There are several reviews of the pump there as well.

Aaron1100us · #3 08/02/2007, 03:05 PM

Ok, thanks, I do like the price and it only uses 55 watts.

sjm817 · #4 08/02/2007, 03:44 PM

It uses 110W.

mta · #5 08/02/2007, 03:59 PM

I think you may need more pump.!5ft head and all those elbows.You may not see 600 gph.

mr_o98 · #6 08/02/2007, 05:34 PM

The premium aquatics website says max head for that pump is 22 feet. It is not going to cut it pumping 15' vertical, 25' horizontal and the 90 degree bends. Sorry to tell you this, but you will have to spend a decent amount of money for a pump to put out 600gph after going thru all of that plumbing.

nyvp · #7 08/02/2007, 05:37 PM

I would say look into the seq series pumps

aninjaatemyshoe · #8 08/02/2007, 05:43 PM

If you are doing it from the basement, Iwaki is the way to go. Go with the Japanese motored (MD) ones. These are powerful, durable and dependable pumps. The large ones do make a lot of noise, but if you have it in the basement I would imagine this wouldn't be a problem.

Sequence makes high head pumps, such as the Saltwater series and the barracuda/hammerhead of the Reeflo line. Don't go with the Snapper or the Dart, however, as they just won't deliver enough pressure to drive much water to your tank from the basement.

sjm817 · #9 08/02/2007, 06:39 PM

I dont know. My Mak4 is only pushing 10', but is delivering plenty of water, maybe 700 GPH or so. The OP wants 300 - 600 GPH and has 15'. I think the pump could do the extra 5' and be in that range. All the 90s would be an issue though with any pump. Why so many fittings?

rbursek · #10 08/02/2007, 06:46 PM

If I remember right when I set up my system and the Fuge/sump is in the basement and the tank is in the living room 8ft head and no horizontal runs my Master Plumber told me EACH 90* elbow in water flow reduces 10%!!!!!!!!! Plus all that line loss do to friction.
Bob

aninjaatemyshoe · #11 08/02/2007, 06:54 PM

How much each 90 degree elbow reduces the flow depends upon how much pressure the pump delivers. Elbows reduce pressure directly, not flow. The flow is reduced as a result of pressure loss. So, higher head pumps like ones that are rated for 25'+ of height, will not loose as much flow at each 90 degree elbow as lower head pumps.

rbursek · #12 08/02/2007, 07:17 PM

I agree to a point, in a round tube, pipe, hose if you double the diameter you trible the flow, as long as the pump can hadle the extra volume, it is a law of Physics! Preasure can not over come restrictions/line loss on a logrithmic scale.
Bob

sjm817 · #13 08/02/2007, 07:30 PM

I ran 1" Spaflex for my drains and return. Eliminates a lot of fittings and is very easy to work with.

aninjaatemyshoe · #14 08/02/2007, 07:31 PM

To keep it simple, low pressure pumps loose more flow when they encounter resistance such as head pressure, friction from the piping, and other such as elbows/bends/reducers/etc. High pressure pumps can deal with resistance better.

rbursek · #15 08/02/2007, 07:55 PM

Ditto Shoe

mr_o98 · #16 08/02/2007, 08:15 PM

sjm817, he wants the pump for 15' vertical and 25' horizontal plus the 90 degree elbows.

rbursek · #17 08/02/2007, 08:23 PM

I am not aware or everthing out there or pool pumps, but I think he is asking for alot! I am not trying to be argumentive, but when you are dealing with head and friction loss in this type of situation your obtions are limitive.
Bob

sjm817 · #18 08/02/2007, 08:27 PM

Yeah, that is a lot. I do wonder if the Mak4 could muster up 300 GPH. If not, the OP will have to spend some more $$ and go for something like a Iwaki MD70RLT or Gen-X Mak5, or PCX-70HP

Aaron1100us · #19 08/03/2007, 05:01 AM

This is what the head loss calc says for the Mak 4.

Aaron1100us · #20 08/03/2007, 05:11 AM

I do like the idea of using the Spaflex, I imagine that would cut losses down a lot. If not, I'd probably try to use 45 degree turns instead of 90s. I was looking at a site and it does say 110 watts input and 55 watts output, I must have been looking at the output. The head will probably be closer to 13 feet or so. From the floor of the basement to the main floor is about 7-8 feet with another 5-6 feet to the top of the tank, I'm guessing. I was down in the basement today looking around and it will be a PITA to try and get everything closer to where the vertical pipe through the floor will be, just not enough room. There is an opening in the floor where you can see the back of the panel that is located on the main floor wall that you can see from the basement. There is a large drain pipe and an air duct that I'll have to go around but there is plenty of room, it just can't come straight down as I would like. If need be, I'll just have to save extra to buy a better pump if the Mak 4 won't do. What do you suggest as minimum GPH at the aquarium? Any other thoughts? Thanks

mta · #21 08/03/2007, 05:47 AM

I thought you were using 1" pipe.

sjm817 · #22 08/03/2007, 06:26 AM

With 1" pipe, 13' vertical, 25 horizontal, 5 90s, the HL calc shows Mak4 @ 611 GPH. The HL calc is not always accurate, but it seems it would work.

Aaron1100us · #23 08/03/2007, 07:03 AM

Thats right, I forgot to say it was 1 inch. With one inch pipe according to the head loss calc for the Mak 4, it states I will have 519GPH of flow at 15 feet and 608 at 13 feet with two ball valves. Would that be true? I'm guessing even higher if I don't use 90 degree bends. Is there a better pump for around the same price range than the GenX? Looking to spend under $150 , closer to $100 if possible. I just want to make sure that I make the right purchase when the time comes.

Aaron1100us · #24 08/04/2007, 09:52 AM

So, would the Mak 4 be a decent choice?

sjm817 · #25 08/04/2007, 11:00 AM

I think it would be fine. I dont know of another pump that is as good in that price range. Use as clean a plumbing setup as you can. How about running 1.25" Spaflex?