AEFW...More Bad News

[dfreakonature12]

Kristen

Thanks for the advice! I'll remove the acro looking coral form the wall tomorrow morning. I wasn't planning on adding any acros for a while anyway, but now I have to resist the urge to put them in the tank!haha

Donald

[gillies]

Sorry to hear the bad news. Judging from the level of your concern, I'm now afraid to purchase frags for a system I just set up and got stable. Damn!

Am I over reacting? Is this something FRAG will have to live with, or is eradication a true possibility? Also, is this a problem when buying colonies from our LFS?

Maybe LPS and clams are in my future.

[Philwd]

These also have been reported to come in on aquacultured. Wilds are a bit of an unknown. The bottom line is educate yourself what to look for, dip and closely inspect all corals and if at all possible setup a small coral qt to place corals in for 2-3 weeks before placing in your display.

[kirstenk]

PROP Corals will not be sold at Auction.

I personally won't sell trade any SPS corals unless I am approached for a frag and they are aware of my situation.

Eradication is our only hope as AEFW will destroy a tank. So you either get them or they get you. Phil's plan of fragging back, tossing bases and QTing the frags is the best solution.

My tank is coming down in about a year so I am undecided on what my plan of action will be. As an eternal optomist, about such things, I am hoping that the AEFW's remained on the coral I recently put in my tank and those were removed.

As Phil said.....The bottom line is educate yourself what to look for, dip and closely inspect all corals and if at all possible setup a small coral qt to place corals in for 2-3 weeks before placing in your display.

[Satori]

This is scary news. I went over a year without adding a new coral, then I went to the auction in June and brought home 4 or 5 that went into my tank after only a 15 minute TMPCC soak. Dang, I'll be looking.

[Fliger]

I don't think I have added anything local for over a year. And I see no signs. With the exception of my DKH spike - I haven't lost any SPS in a year. Still - I have only a few very large colonies left so I'm thinking of getting big frags and chuckin the bases. I have a ton of new stuff and I'd hate to take a chance. I will probably only add fresh cut SPS from now on and QT'd and carefully inspected.

What else is available local to us that works? I thought I read somewhere Fluke Tabs work and don't harm the corals. But there is so much misinformation out there.

Arggh ...

[Garage1217]

Hey guys, Not sure if any of you need them but I have for emergency tanks....

30g

80high

couple of 10gallons

all sitting around. Also several pumps and aquaclear filters if you guys need to set up any tanks quick. If it helps let me know and I can bring them to anyone in the east valley or copper basin area....

[moore_rb]

Originally posted by Philwd


BTW I might be convinced to let people borrow the mesoscope. That's how I first found mine. It has proven it's weight in gold.

Phil,

If you can bring your scope over to my place any time soon, I'd owe you big time.

I added two colonies from Scott and Erin's tank last month, and just the other night I saw what looked like AEFW bite marks on the Humilis. Erring to the side of caution, I yanked the whole colony and chucked it. I have been checking my other colonies twice a day with the magnifying glass and flashlight and have not seen any bites, eggs, or adults on any other coral (knock on wood)....

The humilis was separated from the next closest acro colony by 10 inches. If there were flatworms on that humilis I hope they were isolated to that colony....

[EvilE]

I found a bunch of what looked like baby flatworms on the glass of my nano tank last night....They were very small, but moved quite fast for their size. They are brownish red in color. I saw at least 20 of them on my glass......

[azrednex]

Originally posted by EvilE
I found a bunch of what looked like baby flatworms on the glass of my nano tank last night....They were very small, but moved quite fast for their size. They are brownish red in color. I saw at least 20 of them on my glass......

These don't sound like the AEFW that are vicious they sound like the larger almost harmless slime eating ones they should be about a 1/8 " long if I'm right. the acro eating flatworms are much much smaller.

[moore_rb]

Originally posted by EvilE
I found a bunch of what looked like baby flatworms on the glass of my nano tank last night....They were very small, but moved quite fast for their size. They are brownish red in color. I saw at least 20 of them on my glass......

Probably Red Planaria. Not harmful unless you get a billion of them and they suffer a massive die-off that could pollute your tank...

[Pyrrhus]

Originally posted by azrednex
These don't sound like the AEFW that are vicious they sound like the larger almost harmless slime eating ones they should be about a 1/8 " long if I'm right. the acro eating flatworms are much much smaller.

I have seen AEFW that were at least 3/8". Probably adult flatworms of a size capable of breeding. I was talking to another reefer today (please chime in if you wish) and the life cycle as currently described doesn't really make sense. If AEFW can lay eggs after 5 days from hatching, the eggs they lay would have to be miniscule. Each and every generation the eggs would be getting smaller and smaller and the flatworms hatching would be getting smaller as well. Every AEFW egg that I have seen (in person and in photos) has been of a very uniform size. This would seem to suggest that only adults of a certain size and mass would be capable of breeding and laying a large quantity of eggs of an equal mass. The concept of almost invisible flatworms laying eggs of a size equal to or larger than the animal in question makes no sense whatsoever.

[Philwd]

I know Skip I had thought the same thing. That number I believe is based on capabilties other FW possess. It could just only be capable of small clutches. Or not apply at all. Could be complete misinformation. Few people have let these things sit around and do studies. I have seen egg clutches of widely vaying size.

[Pyrrhus]

Originally posted by Philwd
Few people have let these things sit around and do studies.

Well, it would seem that we have an abundance of the animals in question in the area. What could possibly be a better time to observe and learn about these predators? I would be happy to offer any assistance possible to anyone who would like to look further into the life cycle of these animals. For almost every single marine predator/parasite the key to being able to control/eradicate the P is the understanding of the life cycle of the P in question.

[kirstenk]

......ding, dong.....

That was me talking to Skip. I also think that to lay eggs they have got to "do it" with another one first. Here is some good info I found in one of the big threads.

Originally posted by Sparkss
exactly.. that is the purpose behind the 1 month minimum treatment/QT

It has been anecdotally reported the following :

AEFWs starve after 5 days without acros
AEFW eggs hatch after approx 14 days
AEFWs can't lay eggs right away after hatching and also possibly won't lay eggs unless there is food nearby for their offspring

so, if an AEFW is in your tank, with no acros, it has 5 days to lay eggs before it dies (starves) (although likely won't lay any if there is no detectable food). Those eggs have 2 weeks to hatch. Those newly hatched have 5 days before they starve.

it all adds up to 28 days

Most people shoot for 5 weeks, roughly... we are going for 2 months, just to play it safe.

HTH

I also found some positive info on Marks site. He had them on three corals, treated those three, then put them back in his tank .......retreated a week or so later and they were gone. Corals survived.



http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html

[kirstenk]

I kept the coral with the eggs in a bowl of saltwater. I was going to take it to Frag West so people could see the difficulty in spotting these in your tank. Anyway.....Ya want it? I was also thinking maybe bajabum might want to toy with it too.

I am not interested!

[Pyrrhus]

Oh, what the hell, I'll take them. I was just setting up another system and research seems to be a noble cause for the first use. I have plenty of food available to study the life cycle and can always get more on the cheap.

Bring them on. Maybe AZ can do it's part in advancing the hobby on this front.

[Philwd]

Ok I dug and found one of the original posters who saw the aefw hatch in 5-7 days and then start to lay eggs in a few more days.

link

another quote

First things first, you need to set up a quarantine tank to quarantine ALL of your Acros for a month. You also need a separate container/tank/vessel to perform the dip outlined below. Your main display tank must remain completely acro free for the duration of the treatment. If you have corals that have encrusted on to pieces of LR you must either chisel them off or cover them with marine epoxy or find some other way to destroy the remaining tissue. It is very important to remove all acros from the system to starve any remaining flatworms in the tank. The worms hatch in 5-7 days from brown eggs laid most commonly on across, but not limited to. Around 5 days after hatching they mature and begin to lay eggs. Five days without food will stave the worms and they will die.

[EvilE]

Originally posted by azrednex
These don't sound like the AEFW that are vicious they sound like the larger almost harmless slime eating ones they should be about a 1/8 " long if I'm right. the acro eating flatworms are much much smaller.

I'm tellin you, these are very small!! Tiny little guys.....all over my glass, and they are redish brown....

[EvilE]

Originally posted by pyrrhus
Oh, what the hell, I'll take them. I was just setting up another system and research seems to be a noble cause for the first use. I have plenty of food available to study the life cycle and can always get more on the cheap.

Bring them on. Maybe AZ can do it's part in advancing the hobby on this front.

You da man Skip!!!!!!

[kirstenk]

Here is the post I think you are referring to.

While I was watching them in the qt tanks I had set up the eggs hatched within 5-7 days. No dormant period, they hatch, eat, lay eggs and then grow.

As I've said before, they stay to small to see for months...but are laying eggs... it gives them a better chance of surviving to at least proliferate if they stay small for a considerable period.


He says they stay too small to see for months but yet he sees them lay eggs within a few days? I just can't believe that.

There is the possibility the eggs grow larger as the worm develops within but if that is the case then these things will grow very quickly within the egg and once hatched. jmo

Skip............I will bring you the nasties.

[frontosa_man80]

Originally posted by EvilE
I'm tellin you, these are very small!! Tiny little guys.....all over my glass, and they are redish brown....

here you go EvilE, read this

http://www.melevsreef.com/flatworms.html

[EvilE]

Originally posted by frontosa_man80
here you go EvilE, read this

http://www.melevsreef.com/flatworms.html

Thank you very much--sounds like what I have in my nano for sure!! I may have to buy some flatworm exit