Finally an easy solution to bryopsis! - Page 13

King-Kong · #**301** 07/09/2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdieck
I assume you might be using Styrene plastic based eggcrate (The most usually sold by home harware stores). Styrene releases chemicals that promote algae growth. Take that eggcrate out and replace it with Acrylic based eggcrate or make your frag supports with different material (like acrylic).

I thought this was the case with a lot of plastics? Isnt there something called "plasticizer" used on many of them? Even PVC.. isnt that why algae always tends to grow on these surfaces first? Theyre fuel for the fire?

mr.wilson · #**302** 07/09/2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by King-Kong
I thought this was the case with a lot of plastics? Isnt there something called "plasticizer" used on many of them? Even PVC.. isnt that why algae always tends to grow on these surfaces first? Theyre fuel for the fire?

PVC (phthalates) doesn't cause algae, just cancer.

Many plastics foster the growth of algae due to a lack of bio-film coverage. There's nothing there to compete with algae, so it becomes "the weeds in the cracks".

Bio-films (bacterial slime) don't form as much on plastics due to the pore matrix, or lack there of. It's also possible that chemical agents interfere with there formation. After all, engineers have worked very hard to develop plastics that discourage organisms from forming on it.

King-Kong · #**303** 07/09/2007, 05:40 PM

Chemical agents are what im referring to when I say plasticizer.

edit, to add; "Plasticizers for plastics are additive, most commonly phthalates, that give hard plastics like PVC the desired flexibility and durability."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer

jdieck · #**304** 07/09/2007, 11:55 PM

I do not think is the plasticizers but the styrene base itself.

pjf · #**305** 07/15/2007, 09:19 PM

Instead of using supplements to raise magnesium levels, has anyone tried switching to a salt mix with elevated magnesium levels? Per an Advanced Aquarist study (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1), the following salt mixes have 1600 ppm of magnesium or more:

• Oceanic (1690 ppm)
• Tropic Marin (1700 ppm)
• Crystal Sea Bio-Assay (1600 ppm)

In theory, if you've used any of the above salt mixes at full strength for 3 months, you should not have problems with bryopsis. Can anyone confirm this?

mr.wilson · #**306** 07/15/2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjf
Instead of using supplements to raise magnesium levels, has anyone tried switching to a salt mix with elevated magnesium levels? Per an Advanced Aquarist study (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1), the following salt mixes have 1600 ppm of magnesium or more:

• Oceanic (1690 ppm)
• Tropic Marin (1700 ppm)
• Crystal Sea Bio-Assay (1600 ppm)

In theory, if you've used any of the above salt mixes at full strength for 3 months, you should not have problems with bryopsis. Can anyone confirm this?

These are just the starting points for magnesium. They will deplete if not adequately buffered or supplemented.

The calcium levels of these salts are likely 400, but not for long if there is a demand for it.

kypatriot · #**307** 07/15/2007, 09:29 PM

..

Roland Jacques · #**308** 07/15/2007, 09:41 PM

FWIW I still think the mag sulphate is the answer here. I did talked to both Sea Chem and Kent employees and they both said the vast majority of ingredients is Epsom salt in their Mag sup. Remember Mag Chloride had little to mostly no effects on this algae.

UrbanSage · #**309** 07/15/2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kypatriot
The owner of a LFS here will only use the Crystal Sea Bio-Assay, and I don't remember ever seeing any in his tanks. Not very good anecdotal evidence from me, but I agree with your theory.

One of the LFS's here in South Dakota uses Instant Ocean, and a whale has not beached here since he began using that salt mix

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

pjf · #**310** 07/15/2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
FWIW I still think the mag sulphate is the answer here. I did talked to both Sea Chem and Kent employees and they both said the vast majority of ingredients is Epsom salt in their Mag sup. Remember Mag Chloride had little to mostly no effects on this algae.

Well, this may put a crimp on my salt mix theory. The Advanced Aquarist article shows that marine salt mixes have sulfate levels that are far below those of natural seawater (904-928 ppm). The salt mix with the highest sulfur level is Oceanic with only 70 ppm. This is less than 8% of its level in natural seawater. Of course, it would help if we understand how magnesium sulfate works against bryopsis.

linklemming · #**311** 07/16/2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjf
Instead of using supplements to raise magnesium levels, has anyone tried switching to a salt mix with elevated magnesium levels? Per an Advanced Aquarist study (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1), the following salt mixes have 1600 ppm of magnesium or more:

• Oceanic (1690 ppm)
• Tropic Marin (1700 ppm)
• Crystal Sea Bio-Assay (1600 ppm)

In theory, if you've used any of the above salt mixes at full strength for 3 months, you should not have problems with bryopsis. Can anyone confirm this?

Well maybe I can althought there might be other factors in play here.

I went through a phase of bryopsis outbreak which I couldnt seem to cure. Laziness and a busy life kept me from doing any water changes for about 6 months. Only other supplement added during this time was kalk. Nitrates and phosphates were 0 with the salifert kits. Ironically Chaeto and even grape caulerpa wouldnt grow in my fuge either. As a latch ditch effort I started doing 20g water changes in my system (total of 70 gallons) to the tune of abut 1 change every two days. I went through a whole bucket of Instant Ocean. At first the bryopsis took off for about a week and then died off completly. Caulerpa growth took off.

Stopped the water changes for about a month, caulerpa growth was still substantial and bryopsis has started making a comeback. Started doing water changes again but the net effect this time seems less(went thru another bucket of salt). Current Mg levels are 1100 so I will be trying the Kent M next.

Before trying the water changes, I did try sugar. The use of sugar 'substantially' reduced the bryopsis as well. Unfortunately I had too many other side effects from this although I was careful with its use. The sugar experiment was interesting in that it makes me believe there is a nitrate problem although I never measured any.

Just ordered a gallon of the Kent M, we will see what happens.

Gary

Travis · #**312** 07/16/2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjf
Instead of using supplements to raise magnesium levels, has anyone tried switching to a salt mix with elevated magnesium levels? Per an Advanced Aquarist study (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1), the following salt mixes have 1600 ppm of magnesium or more:

• Oceanic (1690 ppm)
• Tropic Marin (1700 ppm)
• Crystal Sea Bio-Assay (1600 ppm)

In theory, if you've used any of the above salt mixes at full strength for 3 months, you should not have problems with bryopsis. Can anyone confirm this?

I have used Oceanic for the past year or so. I do 100 gallon (25%) water changes every 3-4 weeks. My Mg usually hangs around 1250 but I don't check it very often. I believe Mg levels get depleted constantly (not necessarily rapidly) in a tank fully stocked with fast growing corals.

wilsonh · #**313** 07/16/2007, 07:05 AM

OK well an update on what I'm doing, there is some bryopsis I'd like to be rid of.

MG was around 1250 so I boosted it to just under 1600 with magnesium chloride, no effect. I then got some epsom salts, by the time I got to dose it, mg was down to slightly under 1500, I dosed epsom over 2 days and raised mg just over 2000, which is as much as I am comfortable with. There has been a slight die off in the bryopsis, but not much and some looks like it is starting to recover.

I am going to allow mg to fall right down again over a few weeks, and then try the Kent product.

emoore · #**314** 07/16/2007, 09:25 PM

I have been trying the epsom salt Mg method. I boosted my Mg to 1600 ppm and saw no effect so I upped it to 2000 ppm and saw some slowing to the bryopsis growth but a day later it continued to grow at the normal rate. I have let my Mg fall to 1600 and will probably just keep it there. In summary the Epsom salt did not work for me. I did notice that my Calcium was a little low (340) so I am in the process of upping that to about 450 and see how that does. For now I am back to removing it manually every few days or so.

UrbanSage · #**315** 07/18/2007, 08:35 PM

I dosed the mag flake/epson salt mix and saw no effect what so ever.
Then I dosed Tech M and looks at this:
(Used to be healthy and green).

TWallace · #**316** 07/18/2007, 08:39 PM

I'm still curious if epsom salt alone kills it. I believe Peter Eichler accidentally killed his bryopsis via a massive epsom salt overdose.

linklemming · #**317** 07/21/2007, 03:51 PM

I received the Tech M and started dosing it at the rate of 300ml per day in my 55gallon system (total of 70 gallons). My Mg is now about 1400.

After 3 days, the results are nothing short of dramatic. Byopsis is easily only 1/4 of what it was 3 days ago. I suspect in two days it will be completly gone.

Any ideas on how to keep it from coming back. I was thinking of buying a UV sterilizer to kill the waterborne spores. Good idea??

Gary

TWallace · #**318** 07/21/2007, 06:39 PM

I'm in a similar situation. I have a 55 that was overrun with bryopsis. I used Tech M to eradicate it. When I start to see it come back (only tiny little strands of it become visible) I just dose some Tech M. Bryopsis has become my own automatic magnesium test kit. When it's visible, mag is a little low. I still do have a Salifert mag test kit that I use every once in a while to verify it.

wilsonh · #**319** 07/21/2007, 08:25 PM

TWallace, what level are you holding magnesium at with the Tech M to do the job?

linklemming · #**320** 07/21/2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TWallace
I'm in a similar situation. I have a 55 that was overrun with bryopsis. I used Tech M to eradicate it. When I start to see it come back (only tiny little strands of it become visible) I just dose some Tech M. Bryopsis has become my own automatic magnesium test kit. When it's visible, mag is a little low. I still do have a Salifert mag test kit that I use every once in a while to verify it.

I am amazed at how quickly this worked. If I would have known, I would have removed as much as possible beforehand to keep the dieoff from putting things back in the tank. I wont have time to remove any till tomorrow and it will probably be all gone by then.

You mention Mg above 1500 in some of your posts(as I recall), my salifert kit only goes to 1500.

Thanks for sharing all of this info.

Gary

TWallace · #**321** 07/21/2007, 10:40 PM

I haven't been measuring my mag lately so I couldn't tell you what it is right now. I believe last time I checked it, it was around 1450.

The Salifert kit does only go to 1500, but you can fill up another syringe worth of the reagent and figure out how much each hundredth of a mL is. I think it's 30ppm of mag per hundredth of a mL, but that's just going from memory.

kypatriot · #**322** 07/22/2007, 08:21 PM

Couldn't you also use 1 mL of tank water and 1 mL of RO/DI water to dilute it, run the test normally, and then double your result?

UrbanSage · #**323** 07/22/2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UrbanSage
I dosed the mag flake/epson salt mix and saw no effect what so ever.
Then I dosed Tech M and looks at this:
(Used to be healthy and green).

Here the same area 3-4 days later.

Neptune777 · #**324** 07/24/2007, 09:57 AM

I have had an interesting run on this project. First I thought the Mg Chloride was working....the Bryopsis did receed for a while but never really died. I let the tank go back to normal Mg levels for a while and the Bryopsis grew with vigor.......anyone who has had this stuff knows no matter how clean your tank is the stuff will proliferate with gusto! Water changes, zero PO4, zero Nitrates have no effect.
I did some more research on the Mg subject and learned some very important items. Those who used Kent Tech-M were successful in eradicating the Bryopsis, those who used Epsom Salts had the same results, those who used Mg Chloride were not successful. Mg Sulfate is what you want to use and my guess is that Kent Tech-M is basically Epsom Salts.
So round 2 I used Epsom Salts (Mg Sulfate) exclusively this time..........no doubt about it the Bryopsis is dieing....turning brown and falling to pieces or melting away. It hasn't happened as fast as others have reported but it definitely has an effect on this algea (it kills it at high levels). This has been going on for over a week now....each day more turns brown and dies. I will let you know what happens after a couple more weeks...

FYI my MG level is at 1800....

bhdmc · #**325** 07/24/2007, 10:32 AM

I been battling this pest for over two years and tried everything to rid it. Each time it is remove, it grows back. I figure what do I got to lose trying this method. Raise the Mag level above 1500PPM using Kent Marine Tech-M. In two weeks it is going, going, and almost gone. No effects on my SPS corals nor Clams, but my Yellow Scroll and Zoo's turn pale. The big questions is will it grow back after the Mag drop back to normal. I hope not!