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#51
07/12/2007, 07:21 PM
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I was once a member of WRS, I left. But I left because the hobby consumed me and then became no fun anymore. The club stopped being fun and was just like work for me. Something I began to hate. When the club wanted more structure and rules that was it. I would like to think I contributed alot to the club in the early years. I became a vendor while I was in the club. I donated, I gave discounts, I did all the things the club wanted. I did get business from the club but hardly enough to make it worth what I was giving. But that was OK. I didn't mind. After closing the shop I still kept going to the meetings but not as much. I was burned out.....still am to a degree.
When I was going regularly to the meetings a lot of guys had real nice tanks and the showings were great( I am sure they still are). Tons of people would show up and oogle. WRS was run great and was getting real good donations from some very reputable vendors. We would use that money made from donations for speakers. It was great getting drunk in Rich Go's basement with Ron Shimek. Hanging out with Borneman in Rich Go's kitchen(getting drunk). Getting drunk at my place with Tyree. It wasn't the getting drunk that was great. It was experiencing the human element with these guys. Getting to know who they were. Realizing that they were on another level in the hobby but many of the members of our group were close to that level as well. Shred 5 knows his poop. He even found an error in Bornemans book, we all laughed at it. Gareth and all the guys, Odo, Rich, Eric, Rick, Bill and all the others. We hung at IMAC singing kumbaya in the hallways. It was truly fun. Once the club got big it lost a lot of that.....and that was bound to happen. I have no comment nor should I about the present leadership, I know nothing about it really. I am just speaking on past observations. No offense is meant. If I may comment as to why I found WRS so disheartening without getting flamed I will. Remember this is only my opinion. You flame me I will be done with the group. I witnessed a change in some of the members about two years into it. We would see the same guys staring into the tanks and asking for a frag of this and a frag of that. Never once did we ever get to see those tanks. It seemed to be the same guys hosting meetings and the same guys begging for frags. I remeber talking to some of the hosts and they would wonder if they ever would see a frag in return. A lot of times we never saw those guys again. The club turned into a bunch of freeloaders and it became a recruting point. Join WRS get free corals. While I have absolutely no problem with free trade, trade is the appropriate word. Hosts were afraid to say no to requests. Vendors started donating fewer things(they were not getting value out of thier donations). Remember the reef logs? I could go on and on. It is not about what someone gives you, it's about what you earn. I guess if I can put it one way I would say the club became more about what about me and what can I get for nothing(I agree $10 is nothing). Instead I would have liked to see what the club could have done for the hobby. They did donate money to the elegance coral project which was awesome. But I am not sure they have done much else. Instead of worrying about discounts, free frags and donations you should have grown the club to something that would make members proud to be in. Give rewards for being published in a magazine or online publications, reward for the most posts in a month. Reward accomplisments and do things to put WRS in a positive light. Trust me, if you had more of this you would also have more members and the word would spread and people would not scoff at a membership fee. Host a frag swap. Have that be the one time a year club members/vendors sell or trade through WRS, heck have it quarterly. If it is big enough big vendors will want to be apart of it. Trading could still take place but not at the meetings. Keep the focus of meetings about the host tank or to aknowledge acomplishments in the hobby and have fun. Everyone wants to be a part of something, but for the right reasons. If I saw it heading in that direction I might even get back into it. I am building a 400 gallon reef and would love to host a meeting again. gooch
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Just when I think I'm out.....Something pulls me back in. |
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#52
07/12/2007, 07:48 PM
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It is weird because when I first met a member of the WRS and stopped over at his house he gave me a frag for free. To this day it is still one of my favorite corals, believe you me I spent some good money at my local fish store trying to get cool corals like this one and never once did he have anything like it. About a year later I was able to return that same favor back to the gentleman who gave it to me a year earlier as his colony and all fragments melted away. If he stopped at my house and said he wanted frags of any of my corals I would be throwing it through the tile saw. I do see this same type of person in some of the "new" members of the club and really believe this club could still be something better than what it is today given direction and help from others in the club with great suggestions such as we are hearing. I would pay the $25 (which is what it was 2 years ago when I joined the WRS) a year for a club membership fees if i knew the club was using this money to do something positive with the money. I wouldn't pay $2.00 or attend any function such as a frag swap if the club continues to go in the direction it has been going. Going to meetings and getting drunk, hanging out is great but I don't need to even join the club to do this. I honestly believe that with the money collected we can help drive a better community of reefers here in WI and someday we can have other groups look at us and say what are our by laws and what helped drive this group of reefers to be where others want to be.
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#53
07/12/2007, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
 I like the way you think.
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Man who go to sleep with itchy butt, wake with smelly fingers.......oh and...... F' Hillary |
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#54
07/12/2007, 08:22 PM
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But I am sure that person chose to give you that frag. I don't know you that well but you do not strike me as a person that would beg for a free coral or looks for a handout. The person also probably felt that you would pay it forward down the road. I know I have given my fair share of corals away. And sold a bunch more. I get offers all the time to come cherry pick some of my buddies tanks. I could probably go the rest of my reefing life without buying another coral. But I helped them in the past and they want to help me now. I will take some stuff, I will trade some stuff and I will buy some stuff. But those relationships were built over time, some through the club, some from my past experiences. That is not what I am talking about.
If something is offered and you accept is one thing but to ask or put someone on the spot is another. It is hard to say no to someone with 25 people in the room. Some do not have a problem with it. Some do. But that is not what meetings should be about. That could and should IMO be a side function and not a focal point.
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Just when I think I'm out.....Something pulls me back in. |
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#55
07/12/2007, 08:44 PM
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Rules a club should start with.
1. Have Fun 2. Try to bring at least one new person into the hobby. 3. Don't accept a coral with no intention of ever trading one back. 4. Don't intentionally spread unwanted pests or junk equipment. 5. Have Fun 6. Learn from the club or try to educate other club members. 7. Be a good host and more importantly a gracious guest. 8. Treat every member as an equal. 9. Try to write an article about the hobby, maybe get published. The more positive exposure a club gets the more people will want to become a part of it. 10. Have Fun. 11. Use all funds to cover cost of the club so no out of pocket expenses occur. 12. Use remaining funds to help educate or further the hobby. (If you look there are plenty out there.) 13. Reward members for accomplishments. 14. Get noticed in a positive light. Either by good deeds or just positive chat on the boards. Do not publicly bash stores or other members. This turns more people and potential sponsors away than anything. 15. Have Fun. 16. Have an open discussion to express ideas. Did I mention having fun is important. I do think a pres, VP and treasurer are important. Minutes and someone to lead the meetings are a must. Club information must be held to a predetermined time(10 minutes?) The rest of the time should be focused on the host's tank or designated discussion. These are vague, but do you really need more than that.
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Just when I think I'm out.....Something pulls me back in. |
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#56
07/12/2007, 08:52 PM
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I'm glad you posted gooch. I'm fairly new to the club and its nice to see former/disencouraged members express interest in changing/refocusing the direction of the club. As you state however, we do need to work out some bylaws and leadership/committe's which I think is very easy to get accomlished and get this club revamped.
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#57
07/12/2007, 09:07 PM
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when discussing the future of the club, I think gooch's list is a wonderful to base all discussions and decisions around. If we keep these principles in mind, the rest of the details shouldn't be that hard to work out.
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#58
07/12/2007, 11:15 PM
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I have met some of my best friends in the area from reefing and am sure that group of friends will continue to grow over the years. |
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#59
07/13/2007, 02:07 AM
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I was once a part of Milwaukee Aquarium Society, up until my African Cichlid breeding/importing days were coming to an end.
http://mas-wi.com/index.html We could just use their methods. They do have more structure to their meetings (still once a month at Hoffer's most likely), but they do have a few other things we could take a bit from. Not knocking current leadership, but, everything has an expiration date. One year is a good time. This keeps people from having a 'neverending responsibility'. This also prevents deterring people who might otherwise be interested from shying away from a neverending responsibility. And not just that... there are many benefits to having turnover to the club as well. Fresh blood, a break for the past leadership and rejuvination. I remember the last few years I was part of MAS, there was a cycle of presidents and VPs, and other office members that would constantly get recycled every other year anyways... but it wasnt like the president was locked in forever. Burnout is what Im afraid of most for potential leadership. There is enough burnout as is in this hobby, sometimes just from the hobby itself. Yearly elections are every November for MAS. There is the Prez, VP, Treasurer, and Sarge, as well as 4 chair members. What the chair members do exactly, I dont remember...lol. I do remember that they had meetings every thursday at someone's house for the leadership... that seems excessive, but there are meeting minutes in every 'Splash' publication they print. The votes are cast silently. To run, you must be nominated by someone else (often its just someone you know who knows you want to run). As for Bill's suggestion. I understant the idea of how Madison's club works, and I like that idea. No dues, no leadership... just a bunch of fellow hobbyists getting together at someone's house. To a certain extent, that is exactly what has been happening. Someone just announces a meeting, and with or without anyone else's approval, it usually happens. For instance, if Cory, Josh, and Prugs want to get together on a thursday night to have a meeting, play pool, get drunk, etc... thats their decision. You dont need a club for that. If you want people who just step up for 'special assignments', then so be it. You dont need a club even for that. Otherwise, WRS can just have a membership person (I think they have had the same one for almost 20 years now), a person in charge of shows, one in charge of advertising/public relations, vendor relations, etc (oh yeah, thats what the board members were for...lol). I suppose my point is... Bill, if thats what you want... just go ahead and do it. You dont need the club to do it. There is nothing about WRS that you need to do this. To aid you, there is the website, and perhaps a phone directory would be a great idea to help members get in contact with other members w/o having to attend a meeting or ask around. At the very least, someone should have a listing of everyone's addy, phone, etc. As for WRS, it is not just a club, it is a society. Those who wish it to be an actual society should help in making it a functioning society. This means dues of some sort, no matter how small. This also means some sort of structure and organization. Im all about efficiency... those who know me might comment on this...lol. But its not just about my reef: The club could use some streamlining, some 'communication enhancments'. A frag swap/meet would be nice, but they are a pain to plan. If everyone knows each other, and as of right now, we have little means to advertise to the outside community, it will only benefit a few within the WRS who want to sell to others within the WRS. The point of a swap, auction, etc is to either raise money or awareness with the public. Otherwise, its prolly a better idea just to go to someone's house to get the coral. I just dont think the club is ready for a frag swap... the more I think about it. Maybe combining forces with another club/society would be good... then at least we arent just trading among ourselves. I would like to see a member's only blog/profile section, where only paid members can get in. This area would serve as this: required member info. The MAS had a sheet of questions for new members to fill out. Then, in the meeting, they were formally introduced to the club, and asked to say something about their aspect of the hobby... size and number of tanks, fish kept, etc. We should do the same. New members should be announced, and introduced to all. But even better, we have the internet. We could have a member's only profile page. A pic of the person, a pic of their tank(s)... and I hope they would keep their profile's current. I see this on the MARS site at least. That way, if some new guy is looking for frags, he can look on the site and see that mammoth green slimer that Thorium has, and then find his contact info on his info page, as well as pics, species listings, etc. This would facilitate easier trading among hobbyists. A member could put their email (PM link of course), maybe even address and phone number. This way, anyone in the club can get a hold of anyone else in the club... if just to call up and ask if they want to come over for a Blind Russian, or ask them how much for that pink brain coral. Otherwise, we need leadership. A president's job is to make executive decisions for the whole... as he is voted into his position by the people he represents. I can see how this presents a problem for know-it-all, since he was never elected: he doesnt know what he should do because he doesnt know if its what people want. If he was elected into position, he could just tell you all to can it until the next meeting where you can bring it up according to Robert's Rules. I believe executive power is needed though... decisions must be made. Some of these decisions cant and shouldnt be made by a bunch of people drinking beer in someone's basement. They should be made by the leadership. For instance: follow up on 'special projects' with people. Does anyone know what happened to the Shedd tour I was putting together... I bet only 2 or 3 of you remember. I have plenty of ideas on how to spend WRS's money pot for all, and ways to make it a perpetually functional society, but we need to elect some leaders first. For instance: how about an online publication? People can write articles about a new coral they like, about how they built their new skimmer, setting up a new tank. Thats what MAS's Splash is for. Theirs, being printed, also does loads of good for public exposure because its at every other pet store. There is a 'For Trade/Sale/Wanted' section, meeting notes, articles, and advertising from local businesses. Now Im not saying all that, but we need something to raise our public interaction. A link on Reef Central isnt enough. That merely brings in people who already know about Reef Central... we need to have something that makes people who havent considered a reef aquarium think about it. MAS has aquariums set up and maintained by members across the city... like at the Mitchell Domes. Also, as much as I would love to change the name to SEWERS(South Eastern Wisconsin Enthusiast Reef Society), the WRS name gets recognition. WRS was instantly recognized by the Central Aquatics Rep, Chuck Templeton. He offered factory tours of the Kent, Coralife, Oceanic, and All-Glass facilities in Franklin for our club. He also offered raffle prizes for meetings... like whole lights and tanks... not just the stuff that alot of us vets wouldnt bother to pick up if we won. He said all he needed was a copy of our constitution to file with the PR office (so its legit and not just a sham give-away), and that our president contact him. So we need the organization, the name, etc... All-glass wont donate prizes to a bunch of guys getting together at someone's house once a month to drink beer. Thats my $.05
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#60
07/13/2007, 08:32 AM
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Well Gooch thanks for the compliment. You are a class act and the hobby would be less without you, plus a good friend. You have accomplished allot and had a big impact especially with your reef plugs.
It is amazing how much WRS accomplished in the early days. Bringing in speakers was great and a lot fun, it also was a good use of money. In another thread someone said the reason WRS does not bring in speakers is because people in the club are to advanced, now that baffles me. What people do not realize is one of the reasons we brought in the speakers was for people outside the club too, public was invited. We put flyers in the pet shops all around so that people that get their advice from the lfs would actually get some good advise. I care about WRS. Gareth is one of my best friends and I used to be good friends with Eric and I hate hearing from people all the problems wrs has.. I knew Eric and Gareth before wrs was even a thought. You and I plus a few others fought against to many rules and too much structure to no luck and now their is a chance to save it again and here goes all the rules and regulations again. I would love to join again But I want it back to the fun days. I do not want to be part of a structured club where every meeting we go over stuff not related to the hobby. I like the madison group they are awsum. hahnmeister When we talk frag swap we are talking just people in the club. The meetings turned into people sitting around the hosts tank begging for frags.. No trading during meeting, you have a frag swap and on that day people trade their corals. Of coarse you can trade outside the club but it just protects the host. As far as WRS being a society. it was just a thought up name, it was not meant to mean anything. Dave Last edited by shred5; 07/13/2007 at 08:43 AM. |
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#61
07/13/2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
just to have 4 people show up when we took over, the general consensus was to stop the speakers for the time being Quote:
I really don't have an answer other than that
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#62
07/13/2007, 11:22 AM
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If they would have been done closer to the Milwaukee where most of the members are from and did not require some people to have to get a hotel room they would have done much better. You also have to judge turnout by the speaker you have. I could see Tyree having a low turn out as well as Larry Jackson. Too bad about Larry Jackson Because he did allot as a pioneer in this hobby and being an admin on fishnet. Also his Pictures are about as good as you get and he is a great speaker and a great guy. would speakers do well now? I do not know. People do not follow the experts like they used to and it is sad because so many people think they know it all and have nothing to learn. Fact is especially on RC there is so much misinformation it is not funny. If something gets repeated enough all of a sudden it is true. Even the experts since they are no longer on the same forums like fishnet get away with stating stuff as fact when it is not. Dave Last edited by shred5; 07/13/2007 at 12:00 PM. |
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#63
07/13/2007, 12:26 PM
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so why would we bring in an "expert" then?
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#64
07/13/2007, 12:44 PM
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Dave Last edited by shred5; 07/13/2007 at 12:52 PM. |
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#65
07/13/2007, 01:02 PM
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I am trying to listen but if your not willing to come to a meeting, You are making it very difficult to listen to you seriously as for what to do with the money, that question has been asked by the leadership for the past 4 years it seams Every time a reasonable suggestion gets presented No one has been able to invest the time to see it through my final comment here will be: It's easy to sit on the fence and criticize, until you step up and get involved nothing will change, and you will make it worse by not taking the action to back up your words. I get no benifits from being the a ring leader for this circus
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#66
07/13/2007, 01:44 PM
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I wouldnt bring in experts right now. The membership attendance is still very iffy. Like you hinted at before know-it-all... if these members think so much about what to do with WRS, where are they come meeting time? Many try to fault the leadership, but when I see meetings where only a very few show up... whats the point? I know, I know, everyone has reasons, but when its most of the people that dont show up most of the time... what can you do?
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#67
07/13/2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
The other problem I see is you have a division of what people want. Those that want a cmas with rules, regulation and bi-laws etc and those who want it to me more like the Madison group where it is more relaxed. Quote:
I realize some of the leaders got thrown into their positions and did not really want the position. But that is not healthy for the club... This is kind of how they got thrown into the position: Last I heard There was supposed to be a meeting with several of the leaders and people who were really involved and those who cared to discuss the future of the club. That meeting never happed and all of a sudden Eric was announcing leaders. Even Gareth was not consulted. that meeting should have happened. And I was one of the most involved people in the club. And if you are not willing to take me seriously maybe some of the other people since you seemed to have singled me out but I am saying nothing more that what other people are saying. allot of what I have said is what I am hearing from current members since I am no longer a member. There are some great and good people currently in wrs and it is worth saving .. If I come to a meeting will things change?.. The answer is no. Unless the leaders decide to do something and listen to the suggestions or the ones that do not want too be leaders step down so those that want to can, nothing is going to change. Dave Last edited by shred5; 07/13/2007 at 03:02 PM. |
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#68
07/13/2007, 03:01 PM
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let me correct a couple things
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so no change of gaurd can be seen in the near future Quote:
Eric, Hank, Rick, and myself went off into a corner fo about 1/2 hour Since there were only 2 of us that were new to the roles Eric decided it was time to just anounce who the people were Hank and Myself convinced Steve to help out with the understanding that he would be a behind the scenes leader since his wife had just had a baby the 3 of us got together several time during the summer to discuss what to do and what to change we tried to keep everyone in the loop as to our decisions Quote:
you just seam to be making the most noise and since you will not be at the meeting next weekend I have no way of discussing it with you face to face all of this is planned on being discussed at the next meeting and has been for the last month Quote:
I do not have the abilty to donate any more time or effort to this club I run a buisiness that is taking almost all of my free time away I am ready to step aside and let someone else take care of it but as I and Steve have been saying for a long time now NO ONE IS STEPPING UP TO TAKE OVER someone has to step forward to say I'll take over for anything to change Jeff
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#70
07/13/2007, 03:27 PM
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second
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#71
07/13/2007, 03:39 PM
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To streamline communications between members, we need to network better at the least. One of the reasons why MARS works is because they do this much better than we do. I can find out what members keep, what their tanks looks like, etc... just from their site. How many of you have bothered posting pics of your tanks on WRS's website? Once we know who has what, size tanks, where they live, contact info, etc... we can be more effective at trading and such. I dont see a need for a frag swap if I can just go to Paul's place and pick up a frag of that new chalice that he propigated and posted on the website for all to see. know-it-all: I think people dont throw their own hat into the ring because its a bit ostentatious. Thats why nominating others is the way to do it. That, and Im sure nobody knows what is even available. I nominate Paul Law for Sarg at Arms or Board Member at least. I nominate Frank Hendricks for VP. I nominate Mahuta for Pres. I nominate Boyd for Treas. I nominate Bill Davis, Cory, and Josh for Board. Okay, now they have to accept.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#72
07/13/2007, 03:49 PM
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denied
 I've done my term
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#73
07/13/2007, 03:58 PM
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I dont see a frag swap as a good idea though still. It takes money, and alot of time and setup. It also stresses out the corals alot. We need a place for an extended time with decent electrical hookups, a massive amount of saltwater on hand, seperate tanks, lights, heaters, etc. Its no 'fly by night' affair. That, and I dont see a benefit. If people only updated their profiles, posted pics of their tanks and what they have in frags, I think just going to someone's house is a better idea. Lets face it, many of us have already fragged each other's corals so much... last thing we need is a frag swap with a dozen people trying to sell each other their orange caps. A frag swap is good to introduce new blood to the hobby, or team up with another club for exchange between members that otherwise dont see each other. As far as WRS being a society... I would imagine it was by chance that this name was picked over 'club' but it does imply certain things. A society is an organization, an organized group of persons. This implies leadership and other special positions. It also implies that money will be exchanged not just from member to member, but to the society for some benefit. A club is just that... no organization, no leadership. Its called a 'night club', not a 'night society' for a reason. Like it or not, the WRS has evolved into a society because it has a treasury, leadership, expenses (a website isnt free and unless one person just wants to pay for it alone to make it a club, its still a society). There are advantages to this. Recognition, accomplishment, government and corporate involvement, etc. For those who dont like this, and wish for more of a club, there is still no reason why the two cant co-exist. They currently do co-exist actually, as the requirements for a club are already in place as I have pointed out.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#74
07/13/2007, 04:03 PM
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In that case, I would nominate John S actually. He's quiet, but I think he has leadership potential. I doubt he would want it though. So rather than John, how about Evan Jones? I doubt he would want it either. Josh / Cory? Cory would rock, but once again... would he want it... he is kind of new, but he has good ideas... Oh, wait... I forgot... the most obvious choice of all... I NOMINATE PRUGS!!! I dont think anyone here could come up with a better candidate than Prugger!
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#75
07/13/2007, 04:07 PM
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I nominate you and I have said it before.. Only difference Chad is I am serious. By the way i will see you tomorrow since I am not going up north this weekend... Dave |
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