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#26
07/09/2007, 12:09 PM
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 Note a thread was started on the WRS website forum asking for leadership volunteers. Please sign up! I see that the issue has come up again on where the best place for the WRS forum should be. We'll have to make sure that the WRS website forum vs RC forum is discussed at the BBQ also. This two different area thing is getting old (at least for me) though. The WRS website forum has an area specifically for club related issues. It was set up that way on purpose. I would have thought THAT was the best place for these discussions, not here on RC, but it seems RC still has a big following... By the way, I have asked Frank to give everyone the ability to "View messages since last vist". Apparently, only the moderators currently have that feature??? That would go a long way to letting people know what new posts have occurred since your last visit... Steve |
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#27
07/09/2007, 12:27 PM
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i know most of us all busy with the tank and then add in family and friends outside of the reef world .. and there is not alot of time for things .. like moderating the wrs website and making sure that the fees get posted right and that stuff ... but i like the leadership volunteers would be nice to have .. just to tie up all the misc things that need to get done. or just another bosy to mod the forum and making sure the meeting are planed more in advance then the start of the month ...
me i have alot of time on my hands right now to help .. so i wouldent mind giving some of my time up to make sure things get done ...
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(Member of the Gem Tang Rider Posse) check my red house |
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#28
07/09/2007, 01:22 PM
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I agree that the BBQ is not the approproate place to hold a vote this year, perhaps next year. Again, I do think that these issues need to be discussed and resolved at the BBQ with leadership elections in the near future. As for the forums, I think RC's are more convienient than the WRS forums. One forum is easier to keep track of than two in my opinion and it seems to work OK for CMAS. We do need to get the word out to make sure as many people can make it to the BBQ though. No one should be left out of the disscussions. If the member cant make it than it should be the responsibility of that member to email the president with their thoughts to be included in the discussions.
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#29
07/09/2007, 06:26 PM
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I've been told, I have skimmer envy. Proud Member of the wisconsinreefsociety.org & cmas.net |
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#30
07/10/2007, 07:34 AM
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Last year we (my wife) baked a few deserts the day before since no one listed that they'd bring any, and the day of, a few people of course showed up with desserts...  Unfortunately all the extra dessert we had after the BBQ just made me fatter than I already am! (Was???) Here is the list as I am aware of it right now... http://www.wisconsinreefsociety.org/...opic.php?t=289 Steve |
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#31
07/10/2007, 12:25 PM
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__________________
current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#32
07/10/2007, 12:26 PM
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__________________
current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#33
07/10/2007, 02:31 PM
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I was one of the original members back in the day, in fact i was at the very first meeting. I will say club got pretty bad as time went on, a joke really so i left and never went back. I remember when it was beer,food and tanks and that was it. Once people started talking constitution, elected officials and all that other garbage i walked away. I have enough structure in my everyday life that i am turned off byit when it comes to hobbies. Easier the better i always say.
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#34
07/10/2007, 04:10 PM
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I understand where you’re coming from hammerswinger. Most of us are extremely busy and tend to step away from "structured playtime." But after talking with some reefers from other clubs and venders at the DFS coral conference, I realized that WRS needs some legitimacy, for lack of a better word. And I think that means leaders who want to help the club grow and establishing a set of by-laws. There are plenty of vendors out there that are willing to donate some real nice stuff for each of our meetings. But my understanding is that in order to get access to those donations we need a constitution / by-laws. I am not in an elected position and I was able to secure about $65 worth of giveaways at the meeting nait002 and I hosted. My guess is I would have got more if I would have been able to provide some of the vendors / manufactures a club constitution. In fact one vendor at the conference specifically asked for one to help us out with donations. It is nice to get these things to help our newbie’s out. I don’t think it would be that hard to get one written up and approved by the majority of the active members. In fact I would volunteer to get one written up for the BBQ so we can edit it there for approval. |
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#35
07/10/2007, 05:17 PM
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If interested, I'm sure I can dig up the old attempt at by-laws. I think we already have a constitution in place - which is our mission statement.
I read the link posted of CMAS. It sounds so "lawyer-like" and not very many people (maybe 4-5) even want to go there. The rest would prefer to just have a fun hobby. At the time (2 years ago), I didn't care which way it went. I felt there was some benefit and helped to modify the initial wording that Dennis presented, but then again, it went nowhere and when all was said and done, having bylaws or not didn't do anything for getting people to volunteer to be elected/appointed in the first place (which is what the by-laws seem mostly for), or for getting volunteers to help get things done. Maybe this time will be different. I'll post a link or something on the WRS forum later. Just remember, when we had yahoogroups, 30-40 emails being sent to everyone's personal inbox on by-laws was a BIG turnoff to all. Thus another reason we tried to get rid of it and replace it with the WRS forum. Only people who cared needed to read it. (I'll try and quit the preaching, just always trying to bring the newer members up to speed on past issues) Steve |
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#36
07/10/2007, 05:21 PM
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If everyone would stop worrying about winning stuff and concentrate more on relaxing and enjoying the hobby for a hobby then by laws and constitutions would not be needed. The problem with getting business's to support clubs is that by nature reef hobbiests are cheap as hell not by laws and constitutions. I used to have a pretty good online business and did over 500K a year in reef supplies. I got out of it becuase of ridiculous customers and tiny profit margins. I still know many of the guys at the big mail order houses and they same the same thing. There are no loyal cutomers in reefing, people will shop another site if theyh can save $2.
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#37
07/10/2007, 05:44 PM
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I agree and don’t think we need anything as extravagant as the CMAS constitution / bylaws. I think the mission statement is great. The only thing missing is the outline in which the club conducts business such as the duties of elected officials, any rules to the club, etc. I also enjoy reefing and having fun. The people I associate with in the club do as well. Just because there is a “guideline” to the club does not make it a regime that is impervious to having a great time and enjoying the hobby. Other clubs seem to be doing just fine by that.
Winning stuff is fun; it makes you feel like a winner  . And if a newbie wins something at a meeting to help them out -mission accomplished for the club. The WRS is the perfect platform for sponsors to donate cool stuff to help some of our members out. Its all about helping others through commaradity. Just my opinion.
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#38
07/10/2007, 07:25 PM
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[QUOTE][ 07/10/2007 04:31 PM
hammerswinger I was one of the original members back in the day, in fact i was at the very first meeting. I will say club got pretty bad as time went on, a joke really so i left and never went back. I remember when it was beer,food and tanks and that was it. Once people started talking constitution, elected officials and all that other garbage i walked away. I have enough structure in my everyday life that i am turned off byit when it comes to hobbies. Easier the better i always say. [QUOTE][ Quote:
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#39
07/10/2007, 10:02 PM
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it did not panout because i choose to shut it down and move on to more profitable ventures, somethin you can not appaently grasp. Why stay in business to make less money for your time then you could doing something else. I also moved on because of atitudes like the one you express, the hobby is full of them. Until you actually walk in the reef retail world you have no idea the small amounts of money you makeoff a sale and the crap vendors have to put up with. Anyone who knows me knows i am very laid back and helped alot of members save some serious money on stuff. Hell i even gave another member i met once a nano cube i had laying around, yea i must have a real bad attitude??.
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#40
07/10/2007, 10:14 PM
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I am not interested in making my "hobby" a business... And then get all up in arms saying we the hobbyists are cheap and all big mail order houses say that.
I have a job and that is what I do for a living, Reefing is a fun hobby that I do not want to make into a job and get to the point where you are and be ****ed at the hobby. I have learned to separate the two. I didn't make the statement you where a bad person or didn't give good advice. When you cross over into making it a business that is what it becomes. People that are willing to help with the by laws and such should have the right to do it and the others who don't like yourself should be able to go to the meetings drink, enjoy the company of others in this great hobby and chat about reefing. It is all just a matter some people want to see it become a better reef club. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Last edited by Chads29; 07/10/2007 at 10:23 PM. |
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#41
07/11/2007, 12:07 AM
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Everyone who knows me in this hobby knows I'm cheap... LOL
I admit I'll do what I can to save the two dollars. I'll also "sell" colony sized frags to other WRS members for $5-10 (or free) just because they grew so well in my tank and I kept breaking things off playing in the tank.. It was either that or throw them away... I'm not a chatty person when I'm not behind the keyboard and don't have the time or inclination to sell my stuff to a LFS (where they would probably turn around and sell the same coral for $30-50). Some people are in the hobby to make a buck (or $30). Others like certain aspects such as lighting, ceramic rock making, frag growing, tank visiting and socializing, etc. Others... Bottom line is that everyone is in the hobby for different reasons, enjoys different aspects of it, and none of it is right or wrong, just different. Nothing wrong trying to make the hobby a business. Why not do something you love and get paid for it! It's a tough market out there though and sometimes isn't "cost effective". I've heard no "preaching/whining" about it from Hammerswinger in the past so have no issues with any recent comments... JMHO Steve |
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#42
07/11/2007, 12:24 AM
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OK..
I went on Wiscoreef yahoogroup site and did a search for "Bylaw". I could not find the uploaded file that was created at one time, but OHHH was it painful looking at all the heated discussions on bylaws/constitutions.... While I may still have the original file(s) saved somewhere on one of my computers, unless enough people scream for it, I am not planning to search for it any longer... Maybe I'll let this one get hashed out at the BBQ first in case the issue goes away... I'll be out of town starting this Friday and need to start getting ready... P.S. Thanks to all the past members still lurking around and adding your viewpoints in... Steve |
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#43
07/11/2007, 07:28 AM
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Just thinking this morning...
Even if we just COPIED/ADOPTED the general bylaws of CMAS, and it was posted as official, would this whole issue go away as for all practical purposes, people would never really bother looking at them again??? How many people bother to re-read the WRS mission statement after the first time they've seen it??? Not saying a couple people couldn't tweak things from CMAS for a WRS version, but in reality, would people who saw them once when they were created really bother to look at them any more? If the answer is "not really", then we have two options: 1. Create them, post them, and get it over with so it never arises again. 2. Say they weren't needed to begin with but run the risk of this issue coming AGAIN in two years... Again, this can be discussed at the BBQ. Steve |
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#44
07/11/2007, 08:16 AM
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Thanks for the info Steve. I didnt realize this was such a hot topic. The BBQ seems to have a fair amount of members RSVP'ing, so this is one of the things we can discuss and possibly get an informal vote on if we should continue with this direction. Hopefully we can all try to get the word out to make sure as many people can show up. See you all there.
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#45
07/12/2007, 01:10 PM
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Thats what a club is for, just getting together with a few people that enjoy the hobby the same as you to talk reefs with, Maybe drink a few beers, Do some road trips, trade a few corals. Once money and bi laws start things get screwed up. I know when I finally left almost everyone agreed with me but they still went ahead with bi laws. The money should have been donated to a foundation for saving the reefs or something similar. Funny thing is all this stuff requires leaders and people that want to do stuff.. Problem is no one ever wants to do anything.. sure leaders are gung ho for a little while but after a while they stop doing things when they find out how much work it is and everyone get ticked. Just like now, All I ever hear from people in wrs is the leaders do not even make meetings. So why are they leaders or better yet go back to the simple days when it was fun and you do not need leaders other than someone to set up meetings. funny thing is last few meeting I have been too no one even hangs out. They show up to see what they could get free and left. almost all the original wrs people (and i am not just talking first meeting) are still friends and hang out and none are a members of wrs anymore and that is just sad. I have been thinking of showing up to a meeting to see how things are better but I can now tell by threads like this they are not... Now I understand why the forums on wrs are locked and they should not be. Dave Last edited by shred5; 07/12/2007 at 01:31 PM. |
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#46
07/12/2007, 02:19 PM
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This is really almost comical.
I genuinely don't understand why people would boycott meetings just because there are bylaws and $10.00 dues. I've been President of two different volunteer organizations. The biggest challenge is getting volunteers to help do things. We should thanking the people who have stepped up an volunteered to help keep things together. It may nor may not be time for other people to step up and help lead. All bylaws help do is provide a structure for how things are to be done when there is a conflict (should there be elections? what are the positions? when are elections held? ect.). Once adopted, I bet the Bylaws wouldn't even be read again for several years (unless a disagreement came up). Believe it nor not, but they actually help resolve conflicts. Its not like meetings are started by everyone standing around and saying thier pledge of allegiance to the bylaws and everyone must recite them verbatim or they're kicked out. In any organization, MAYBE 10% are actually interested leadership or the workings of the organization. The other 90% are just there to have fun or participate. And thats GREAT!!!!! If you aren't interested in the "politics" you can still just show up, hang out with friends, and generally have a great time. I know I haven't been to many meetings, but I can't imagine any of them are dominated by politics. It's a new day folks. Give WRS a try, come back to one of the meetings, and try it out - what have you got to lose? |
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#47
07/12/2007, 02:46 PM
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You know what find comical is people who put words in other peoples mouths. We said we were not going because the fun was out of it.
Who said anything about boycotting? obviously you have not gone to many meetings. Why is there dues when the money just sits there and is not used and there is allot of it.. Nothing is done with it at all. Leaders are doing nothing from what I understand, they do not show up at meetings. Tell me what you need laws for? Honestly it is political or why have locked forums, what is so secret? I was booted from the forums because I had not paid my dues because I had not been to A meeting for a while, I would have paid at the next meeting.. All this for 10.00 when I spent hundreds out of my pocket on their website for hosting and dns registration. Thanks Steve Lumaye and that was the final straw for me. Oh and they Booted Gareth too who was founder of wrs. He should always be a member and not have to pay for all the work he did. Tell me things are not about money. Dave |
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#48
07/12/2007, 03:15 PM
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You have to be a member to access a member only section of a forum (I assume it was created in case somebody had something that they wanted to offer to club members only). What a radical concept...
 But seriously, there are precious few reefers here in SE Wisconsin. We should be finding oppotunities to come together - not digging in our heels about why we're appart. I could care less if there is a $10 due or not. $10 is not worth fighting over. But there are costs associated with being a group. For example - you should not have had to pay for the web site costs out of your pocket (neither should Frank) - I extend a hearty thank you to both of you. If it is something that benefits all of us, all of us should help bare the costs of that benefit. I would also offer that Bylaws could address some of your concerns. It seems alot of the frustration with WRS is "Where is my money going and how is it being spen". Bylaws would address this. Most Bylwas require an annual financial summary to be prepared showing yearly income and how/where money was spent. This is normally distributed to members so that they can see all of this and comment on how the money is used. You absolutely should have the right to see this. Please give this a chance and come offer your suggestions (historical perspectives are important) on how the club should move forward in the future. |
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#49
07/12/2007, 03:40 PM
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You make some very good points Ryan. Having a set of bylaws would assist in some conflicts that arise and seem to have been problems in the past. I also agree with Dave that the leadership has been less than outstanding about the financial matters of the club and where the money gets distributed. The money should go back into the club or donated to help educate/inform/assist others about the worlds current reef degradation. However, these are things that can be written in a simple set of bylaws that current and future leaders would/should abide by. I can’t constructively criticize the current leadership as they stepped up when no one else would to keep the WRS going. However, I do believe as I think others do as well that it is now time for a change in guard and let others get a chance at expanding and refining/improving the club. I also think that the anti- constructive posts should stop. All members should be given a voice, but when we start bashing others and the club we get no where. This thread was started to get ideas and plans together in advance of the BBQ to help the club in a new direction and I suggest we stay focused here.
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#50
07/12/2007, 05:48 PM
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1 was my twins Birthday the other was my wife graduating with a masters degree I guess I should get my priorities straight next time sorry about that if you don't like the direction the club has taken, come to a meeting and say I can do better, let me have a try at it
__________________
current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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