H2O is back!

[H2OLUVSME]

Okay, so I ran on and on. I'm going to highlight the Qs so that one can skim a bit easier and still provide some input Thanks guys.


Okay, so to keep from the continued jacking of Ricks thread I decided to start my own.

I've got a 180 gallon AGA sitting in storage right now. I got it on a steal of a deal, but the top braces are messed up. Apparently (according to Tommy at Coastline) the guy who owned the tank tried to dump a trash can full of water into the tank all at once. I've always wondered how tight the tolerances on these tanks were. I guess I'm happy I never tested it :P

Any how I got a great deal on the tank because AGA replaced it for him, but left it for him instead of paying to get it shipped back to them. Tommy and I worked out a deal for some other stuff I was doing for him and viola, I have a 180!

So Sarah and I have finally decided we are going to take the plunge again. I'm jonesin to set something up, and she doesn't want anything other than a reef tank.

Here in lies the problems/tasks, whatever you want to call 'em. I'm going to be doing a very slow and methodical set up of this beast. First I plan on constructing a stand and sump. I can then get the tank in place and begin to cycle some LR and sand. If any of you guys have donatable live or dead rock it would be much appreciated.

Also, I need to start gathering equipment. Ill be looking for a good deal on an RO (I do plan on using it this time ), and water holding containers for mixing/changing water. I know brute trash cans were the way to go a few years ago. If this is still the way I know I can get them at Lowes. Any other ideas are welcomed. Where is the spot to buy an RO unit nowadays? I think 100gpd would be suffice.

Also, any cool new ideas of water changing, water flow, or filtering that I need to know about?

I'm also taking recommendations for a skimmer on a tank this size. You guys know Ill probably be very lightly stocked as far as fish, but I'm also a condoner of the overkill method This is one of the first things I need to address as the sump and/or stand need to be designed around this. I'm shooting for a mainly SPS reef, but I know Ill get hooked on zoas, and Sarah will always see some type of LPS she wants, so it needs to be powerful regardless of fish load.

This brings me to lighting. In addition to the ones mentioned above, I'm also shooting to house quite a few clams. These are very often times overlooked in the set up stages, but I want to cater to them on some levels. I remember a few tricks about shading and know the basic rules of higher demanding corals up top and lower ones down low, but how much is enough? and how much is too much (if there is such a thing)? My tank was 21" with a 4" sand bed, and I had 250s. That may have been on the verge of too much, but tack on a few more inches of height and width...is it enough. I'm really hoping for you guys with these 24" deep tanks to chime in. Also keep in mind I wont be quite as SPS dominated as most of you guys are.

What do you guys recommend as far as pumps? I've got some ideas and will likely follow one of my plans, but really want input on brand and sizes of pumps. I an advocate of tons of flow as well, so keep that in mind One of the main goals with this set up will be no visible equipment. This will take a lot of planning, but I've got a clean undrilled slate that I'm ready to make into swiss cheese if need be.

Lastly, (for now) what other equipment is a "must have"? I'm looking to house everything in the stand. This 6' stand souls house anything I can think of, but I haven't gone high tech enough in the past. What type of reactors are going to be the most necessary without adding too much maintenance?

This should be enough to keep me busy for a while. Hopefully Ill get all I need here and wont have to transpose out into the "Reef Discussion" area

[Strack]

Landon, I get tons of growth out of my tank, 400K XMs. But there are some that are running the 14K lights because you don't need the actinics with them. But in my opinion, the par of the XMs can't be beat. I have 3 clams that are really putting it on growth wise.

I love my skimmier. G-3 is rated for 250 I believe. But I get lots out of my tank and it is so easy to clean. I recommend it often.

I use a 3000GPH Dophin closed lump system that works 2 sea swirls and a couple of pvc T's in the middle.

Can't complain with the pump at all.

Welcome back man! Let me know if you need any corals.

[dvmsn]

1) Ro/Di: There are a lot of good deals on Ebay. I think I got mine from filters direct, but I am not sure. 100 g/p/d is more than enough.

2) I use two large trash cans with an extra powerhead for a pump for water changes and it works perfect.

3) I still like the seios for water flow. They are ugly, but work well for the money.

4) I have an Octopus skimmer. It is basically an asm/euroreef knock-off. They are very cheap and the construction is good. The only problem is that the air inlet is a stupid design (it elbows) and it gets clogged. I need to mod mine but haven’t gotten around to it. I might stick with an asm if I had to do it over again.

5) Lighting: Unfortunately, I don’t think that there is one lighting application that would suit all your needs. IMHO, you have to decide sps or lps. My 400's are great for my sps but will kill many lps I try to stick in bright spots. I think 250's are a good middle ground but will be too much for some lps and not enough for some sps. There have also been some awesome tanks running t-5 only in the last several years. Jason has t-5's only over his new tank. I think that the initial cost is fairly high on t-5 as a down side.

6) Pumps: I have never owned one (and currently run a mag 2400 which I wouldn’t recommend) but I have read lots of good reviews of the sequence pumps. I think rick runs them.

7) I think and auto top-off is mandatory on that size tank unless you want a herniated disc. I bought one of these http://www.floatswitches.net/ and a maxijet 1200 and a plastic tub for mine. Total cost of about $ 40.00. I would make sure that you DON’T keep your ro/di hooked up to your freshwater reservoir as that is a disaster waiting to happen. The point of the reservoir is to limit the amount of water that can go into your tank at any time.

[chad508]

you won't be happy unless you go 400 watt mh's thats what i have on my 180 unlike dave lps do great in my take and sps grow out of control. i would also recomend the asm either g3 are the g4 if stand will be tall enough. also recomend some type of two part doser to keep up with calcium and alk. in my 180 i dose 1 gallon of both each week so a doser will save time. let me know if you need me to order anything as i get wholesale on most everything but xm bulbs.

[H2OLUVSME]

Okay, so 400s seems to be the recommended for SPS and clams. Ill keep placement and selection of LPS in mind Dave, and will definitely have to try out some creative things to have a chance at stocking many of them.

Are DE bulbs any better. I remember thinking that 250s put out near the amount of light that 400SEs do. That would save me 450w of electricity a month if they do

I'm not really interested in T-5s. I'm not as impressed with them as a lot of people are. I also really like the point source of the mhs.

Blake, I'm a blue kind of guy. You may see me with 14k and actinic I ran 20ks with actinic on my old 75 :P Going with higher spectrum also makes me want to lean towards 400s.

The ugliness of the the SEIOs is going to rule them out. I'm thinking of doing a couple smaller closed loops instead of one huge one, so I may run a couple of those mags or something smaller in the higher price range. I'm always paranoid about a pump failure, and I don't want to be worried every time I go out of town that a closed loop is going to die and my tank is going stagnant. Two smaller would be twice as trustworthy, and just as efficient.

Ill think on the sea swirls, but I've had good luck in the past with the "ton of flow" routine. If you get enough in there it will be erratic and should cover all areas.

Ill look into the skimmers. It looks like the G4 is about $100 more than the g3, and should fit the height of the stand. It just has a bigger girth, so sump design will have to accommodate that. Ill go ahead and design around it even if I decide to go g3.



Top off? Can you add your 2 part supplements here? Do I need separate containers for each part? What is the preferred media by you guys these days? On my 75 I only used kalk, but I'm hoping for a little more stability and growth in this one.


EDIT: One more Q: What water level are you guys running your G3s in? I assume I can look for a similar depth for the G4.

[dvmsn]

Thats why I like seios Damn they are ugly.

[dvmsn]

The reeflux 10k is supposed to be an attractvie mix between blue and lower par bulbs with a nice par.

[chad508]

if you want blue i would go with the same ballast as i got dave its a hqi and with the reeflux 10k's you will get the same par as a 10k xm on a normal ballast. almost 200. as far as sump depth i run my g3 in 11 inches of water. a 75 gallon tank works perfect for my g3 and would also work just as good for a g4. 2part and top off should not be the same. you can use kalk as top off. i use randy farleys 2 part solution its cheap and easy i get all supplies locally and can hook you up when needed.

[dvmsn]

Yes, I would agree with kalk for top off. I also like the HQI's

[Rpierce]

OK- Here's my .2 cents

I agree with just about everything that was said but...

Skimmer- as we talked you may want to run your skimmer external to the sump so you may want to look at some other brands like AquaC. I know that ASMs cannot be used externally. With that being said, I use an ASM G3 and it works great. Couldn't ask for a better skimmer.

Lighting- From what I have seen, I would stay away from DE bulbs. They are HOT. I have a 14K DE Phoenix bulb on my frag tank and it is HOT.
So, knowing you like the "blue look" you may want to try the Reeflux that Dave was talking about. They also make a 14 or 15 K bulb as well. I like Dave, with the 400 watt 10K XMs can't keep any LPS. If I had it to do over again, I would probably do 250s with Lumenarc reflectors.

Water Movement- I love closed loops!!! After what I just went through with my Sequence pump, that's all I'll ever buy. Quick story- Pump broke (bearings in pump) after owning it for almost 3 years and they replaced it with a brand new one, not remanufactured. I have the Sequence Dart and love it. I agree with you that 2 closed loops is the way to go on such a large tank. I would stay away from Mags. I have heard too many horror stories about them especially running externally.

WaveMaker Device- I also have an Ocean Motions 4 Way. I really like it. It adds that natural look to your tank as the polyps on your corals wave back and forth.

The only other thing that I do differently is I use a dosing pump to fill my tank instead of using float switches. It continuosly pumps small amounts of water to the tank keeping the tank at the same level 24 hours a day. It also runs through a kalk reactor so all top off water is kalkwater.

Did I miss anything?

By the way- Welcome back!


Rick

[phishguyatstore]

I would add2cents but everyone has already talked about all the good stuff. i will offer help when you need some landon ,and you can come get the rock out of my 55 if you want it. free of charge man. which will be nice cause then i can get rid of the tank and stand. dave you mentioned someone namedjason is that jason that moved to maryland.

[dvmsn]

Yep

[phishguyatstore]

next time you talk to him tell him i said hey please

[dvmsn]

He had a thread on here about it.

[H2OLUVSME]

Thanks every body.

Ill be looking more into wavemakers, and sequence pumps. Im not sire what volume Ill be looking at, but how big are these pumps?

Where do you keep yours Rick?

One problem I have is Sarah will not agree to a hole in the wall, so I cant use my garage Everything will have to fit in the stand.

[dvmsn]

Put on your lasagna stained wife beater and tell her how it is gonna be

[Rpierce]

I have my sequence dart in the stand. It sits right next to the sump. It is only 11.00"x6.57"x7.00" (marine depot)

You should have plenty of room in a 6 foot stand!

[H2OLUVSME]

^^

^ Thanks Rick. I should easily be able to fit two in there Thats the smallest one (flow wise) MD had listed. Two of those on OMs wouldnt be way too much would they? Keep in mind I had like 4000gph on the 75.

I am more concerned with heat than anything else.

[dvmsn]

One advantage of that pump is that they run very cool. If you look at the wattage they pull it is something like half of similar pumps.

[Rpierce]

I wouldn't think so. Look at it this way, Derek has one Dart on his 90.

[chad508]

i would also look at the vortechs i have 2 on mine and they work great and you get unbelievable flow.

[phishguyatstore]

Yeah Yeah go with the the vortech also landon call me about that i seen them on a list i get we might be able to help with cost

[phishguyatstore]

also about dart from sequence

[phishguyatstore]

tell sera that if you put it in garage it will get rid of sound see if that helps

[H2OLUVSME]

Im going to be trying to sound proof the sump, but the main noise always comes from the drain. This time I will be going with uber slow flow through the sump, and I think Im going to use the gate valve mod to try and control exactly the speed of flow. Sound shouldnt be much of an issue unless the skimmer or darts are noisy, but it says they run at like 52db. Thats less than a normal conversation and it will be behind sound insulated doors. Im hoping insulating the stand wont hold in too much heat. Ill be having fans down there just like the canopy, so it may work, or it may not.

I dont think Ill go with the vortecs. One of my main goals is going to be lack of visible equipment. I dont see any way to hide them on the inside or outside of the tank, and that kind of rules them out. I could probably come up with something if I could mount them to the back, but I dont want all the flow directed at the front glass. Ill have trouble keeping the sand where I want it if I go that route, and itll be harder to get flow everywhere. If I had closed in sides they would be an option, but the ends of my tank will be viewable. I dont want to clutter it with two magnets and powercords hangin off of the sides

Steve, Im coming by the store this morning. By the time youve read this, we will have talked about pricing