Remind me again why I have a GFCI?

[LobsterOfJustice]

I went downstairs this morning, and the entire workroom has no electricity. I figured out it was the GFCI and narrowed it down to something about one powerstrip that was tripping this thing. By the way, the tank was without heat and backsiphoned and overflowed. I am already in a hurry to get off to school and this happens NOW! I probably wont even be home for another 24 hours (it's friday, I have a life). So for now I have one less powerstrip to run everything. Those of you with larger setups can understand what I mean... you need every little outlet you can get. I plugged the vitals (heat, circulation) into the good strip, and have to figure this out later. I still have no idea why the GFCI tripped (no water on the outlets or anything). I do have a grounding probe, but it was plugged into the "good" powerstrip. Just needed to vent.

[KDodds]

Any timers or MHs plugged intot eh failed strip? Have heard of that happening on a number of occassions. Respectfully, tho, I would suggest that if the lives in your tank are not you priority, if you "need" to "have a life" while your organisms are potentially dying, it might be more reasonable to consider a simpler set-up.

[ChrisCummins]

Respectfully, tho, I would suggest that if the lives in your tank are not you priority, if you "need" to "have a life" while your organisms are potentially dying, it might be more reasonable to consider a simpler set-up. [/B]

Boo hoo all work no play make LobsterofJustice a dull boy. [profanity] happens, you gotta roll with it.

Thanks,
Chris

[ONEMANBAND]

You should try to split the electrical load onto different circuits. I run 4 20A circuits to my tank and have never had a problem.

[fishgeeksrus]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
I probably wont even be home for another 24 hours (it's friday, I have a life).

When you made the decision to get into this hobby, you made a moral choice that you would take care of your livestock to the best of your ability. It's almost like marriage.... you know "in sickness or in health, till death do us part" And most of all "for richer or for POORER!!!!!"

Take the time to purchase another powerstrip, come home for 10 minutes to hook it up and see if that (old strip) was the problem. If it was, you're out 20 bucks. If not take the new strip back.

Many of us have learned througout our experiances that if you push off one problem for a later day, you'll more than likely find that you pushed it into worse problems.

JMO

Dennis

[samtheman]

"When you made the decision to get into this hobby, you made a moral choice that you would take care of your livestock to the best of your ability." That's BS.

[Tunjee]

I smelled something burning upstairs one day and noticed my powerstrip to my computer was on fire. You never know maybe your GFCI kept your power strip from shorting out and catching on fire.

[ftnirishfan]

onemanband said it right...... I ran two 20A circuits to my tank, I have two closed loops each on diff circuits in case one gets tripped there is still flow to the tank. I have two heaters, same reason. Cooling fans, same reason since the MHs are on a totally diff circuit. Doesn't do much if all power goes out but that is what a generator and battery powered air pump are for. I suspect you may have too much load to one circuit.

[clsanchez77]

When you made the decision to get into this hobby, you made a moral choice that you would take care of your livestock to the best of your ability.

That is correct

"When you made the decision to get into this hobby, you made a moral choice that you would take care of your livestock to the best of your ability." That's BS.

No, that's life!


I agree with Tunjee, more than likely your GFCI stopped a potentially much bigger problem.

I only have one dedicated circuit for my tank, but I have branched to (4) GFCI outlets. GFCI's trip for several reasons, too much load on them is not the usual reason, so I don't think its an issue of overloading your breakers...otherwise a breaker would have tripped.

So most likely, an item in your tank leaked some juice and the grounding probe redirected it away from the powerstrip, to your good powerstrip, the GFCI, noted it was not capturing all the current as some was being grounded (does not care which powerstrip grounded..someone grounded it). If i were you I would be cautions that you may have plugged in faulty equipment into your good powerstrip to take everything out again...the penalty of having a life I suppose.

On the other hand, GFCI's do trip prematurely, although it has never happened to me, it is the trade off of having the protection.

Please keep up posted. Hopefully everything is working fine when you get back.

Side note and some advise,

I stay away from computer powerstrips, these aren't designed for motors and high amp circuitry (ballasts, chillers, motors...). Go with the powerstrips that are build for workshops and power tools, this is more inline with what we do in the hobby.

Go grab a surface mount boxes and throw 2 GFCI's in them, use and appliance chord to wire them up and plug them in; it's not permanent so you don't need to worry about the electric codes and such but you do need to follow instructions and be careful. Split your equipmenet across the two so that if this happens again, you do not loose everything. This will set you back $50 or so but could save a lot more in equipment/livestock.

Finally, readdress your priorities, yes you do have to go to school, but if the tank is not part of your life, then gut it out and drop some goldfish, they can go a few days with out electtricty of feeding (maybe even water...they are pretty tough). If you come back and find everything dead, I will still help you find the problem and correct it, but don't look for sympathy here.

Chris

[Yaryman]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
By the way, the tank was without heat and backsiphoned and overflowed.

Not to pile on, but if the power goes out and your tank overflows, then you have designed it wrong.

The power will go out sooner or later for whatever reason, your system needs to be designed with that in mind.

[clsanchez77]

good catch, missed that point

[The Reefer91]

is it possible he isn't going to read this thread ever again? just a thought

however, i am planning a tank and my design has several in wall outlets that link to several GFCI's. that way if one trips, it doesn't trip everything else.

planning is the key in this hobby( a year of planning and i still don't know squat )

[LobsterOfJustice]

Wow guys... where do I start?

The return has a siphon break to prevent backsiphoning which has always worked for me in the past. Apparently it didnt this time - I did not have enough time this morning to check it out.

My tank is on one side of the wall, equipment room on the other. There is one outlet under the tank which runs powerheads and lights and a few other things, then another outlet in the back room which runs most of the equipment. The outlet under the tank was unaffected - so the tank still had circulation (which was splashing all over the place because the water level was about 4 inches too low).

As of now my plan is just to plug everything on the powerstrip one-by-one into the outlet to see if any individual item trips it. If not, I guess it is the powerstrip and I will try buying a new one.

There was a timer plugged into the strip that failed, but it was not running MH - just a dome lamp for the fuge.

And for the guy who told me to get some goldfish - back the hell off. I'm sorry I can't skip school, work, and drivers ed to fix this problem right now. I guess that makes me an animal killer and I do have to readdress my priorities - my aquarium, THEN education and my job. I love my tank as much as the rest of you, but give me a break here. Trust me, the tank wouldnt be around without the job and school.

BTW - because I know this will be asked - I am writing this from a computer at school during a free period (and no, I can not go home now).

[clsanchez77]

And for the guy who told me to get some goldfish - back the hell off. I'm sorry I can't skip school, work, and drivers ed to fix this problem right now. I guess that makes me an animal killer and I do have to readdress my priorities - my aquarium, THEN education and my job. I love my tank as much as the rest of you, but give me a break here. Trust me, the tank wouldnt be around without the job and school.

I came off stong and I applogize...

But provided with what you stated that you did not have time to address it because you had a life gives a biased opinion of what you think of your tank to the rest of us, we can only read your thread, not your mind!

I agree, the tank comes after school and work. It also comes after family and friends when they are in times of need. Your statement only stated school and implied anything else as part of your life but not the tank...you have to admit this leaves a bad impression.

I'll leave now as I centainly have undermined my credibility, but please do not dismiss my advice provided (except the goldfish ) as it is genuine advice.

No need to comment to this post, I won't invade your space any further.

Chris

[Tunjee]

Sometimes GFCI's just go bad. On my own tank when the power would go out and come back on the GFCI would trip. I had to replace the gfci to solve the problem. I do electrical service work and have changed gfci's out for new ones because of this.

Did you have a power interuption? Otherwise you might have a heater or a pump leaking voltage to ground and your gfci is just doing it's job. You'll find out through process of elimination.

[smleee]

Just a reminder......lets not forget to check out what happened with the siphon break. What is the current method?

eee

[Gudwyn]

Well GFCI's trip sometimes. And sometimes it kills your fish/corals. But it's way better than being killed yourself or having someone in your family electrocuted.

I've had cases where something went bad with the tank and I had to leave right then. Best thing to do in my opinion is to turn off all lights and plug in a powerhead that will ripple the surface of the tank. Shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to turn off the main power strips and run an extension cord over to a powerhead.

Oh, and throw some towels on the floor. :-)

[JHReef]

It takes very little differnce in ground potential to trip a GFCI. They can become overly sensitive in time.

BTW, you have one because everyone told you you're supposed to, remember?

As stated before, and based on your reply above you appear to have seperate circuits so that's cool. Some folks here poo poo check valves, but mine has worked fine for over 2 years, and yes I test it often. Yes there is a syphon break too. A great place for snails to hang out at the wrong time IME.

Oh, and the stuff about committments to your tank etc. I wouldn't let that bother you. If people were as dedicated to tending to their tanks like a patient in ICU, there wouldn't be all that junk on the market to automate everything including water changes. I bet they have a life too, they're just too proud ...or something, to admit it.

[lepete]

The naked truth, GFCI is meant to protect you, not your fish.

[CaliforniaDreamer]

Originally posted by lepete
The naked truth, GFCI is meant to protect you, not your fish.

True!

In any case, I had a similar problem, fortunately without the sump overflow, and when I checked it out and reset the GFCI everything worked. On inspection the next morning the GFCI was tripped again. Turns out it was the heater that didn't run during the day when the lights heat up the tank, but at night ... In any case when you checkout your components make sure they are ON when you do your checkout.

[lepete]

Originally posted by CaliforniaDreamer
True!

In any case, I had a similar problem, fortunately without the sump overflow, and when I checked it out and reset the GFCI everything worked. On inspection the next morning the GFCI was tripped again. Turns out it was the heater that didn't run during the day when the lights heat up the tank, but at night ... In any case when you checkout your components make sure they are ON when you do your checkout.

Okay, okay. I have 2 stories:

1) GFCI tripped everytime I turned on my equipments connected on my surge protector. I did research and found that surge protectors worked by channeling extra voltage to the ground line. http://computer.howstuffworks.com/surge-protector.htm. It solved my problem. Somehow, when I turn on the surge protector, some current must have been going to ground. I replaced the powerstrip and the problem disappeared.

2) GFCI saved my life. I had bubble bursting leaving salt creep on my on/off switch for my cabinet light. I went to turn it on..... ZAPPP... well, it was boring, instead of a ZAPPPP and maybe a scream, I just heard the click of the GFCI. I love my GFCI.

[LobsterOfJustice]

clsanchez77,

I apologize too, I jsut got a little defensive.

I am at home right not for about 5 minutes to check on the tank, and everything seems alright - No Ca reactor running and less curculation, but I think the tank will be fine for at least a day or two.

I guess I was just always told that the GFCI would trip if I touched a wet socket or something - it didnt occour to me it could "just trip". My dad also says they can trip from carrying too much current - is this a valid concern? I had not added any extra load to the outlet within a few days of it tripping; I would assume something like this would happen as soon as you plug in too much.

[CaliforniaDreamer]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
clsanchez77,

I guess I was just always told that the GFCI would trip if I touched a wet socket or something - it didnt occour to me it could "just trip". My dad also says they can trip from carrying too much current - is this a valid concern? I had not added any extra load to the outlet within a few days of it tripping; I would assume something like this would happen as soon as you plug in too much.

IME they can trip for no apparent reason. From my limited understanding they work by "measuring" the input and output current traveling through them. If it doesn’t match they trip (some of the current is going elsewhere, like through a person to ground). My understanding is that inductive loads (like large motors and large light ballast transformers) can sometimes fool the GFCI into thinking there is a problem when there isn't. A good reason for redundant GFCI circuits and separating the crucial equipment as suggested in other posts. In any case good luck with finding the ultimate cause for the trip.

[Tunjee]

No they will not trip if they pull too much current. you can pump 100 amps through a 15 amp rated gfi and it's not gonna trip. But the milisecond ampdraw differs bettween hot and neutral TRIP goes the gfi.

[chirocato]

I would imagine that it's tough to have these types of tanks when you are younger and still have a life.

Much easier after you are married with kids and DON'T have a life.