Think "cooking" rocks is dumb?

[Aquaticman74]

As many of you BB guys know, I didn't cook my rock. I'm on week 5 of this setup and can't get my nitrates to 0. Last night I decided to re-arrange things a bit to work on getting more particles to the skimmer. I blow off my rock daily and siphon as well. This morning when I awoke, I couldn't believe how much crap was trapped in rock that came out during the night. Think cooking rock is dumb? You better think again!

[Sindjin]

Nice pics. Now imagine all that stuff sinking into a sandbed where it would disappear...

Im not busting on sandbeds... I'm supporting Rock Cooking.

I didnt cook mine either... and Im dealing with the same thing...
Although my shedding has dropped a lot since the beginning.

[Bomber]

Mike

Try something

Carefully siphon one of those little piles out with as little water as you can, and test it for phosphate.

[Sindjin]

Oooo Good Idea Bomber!
Mike... post the results!!

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by Bomber
Mike

Try something

Carefully siphon one of those little piles out with as little water as you can, and test it for phosphate.

Will do right now...

[NoSchwag]

Siphon that crap you filthy animal.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by NoSchwag
Siphon that crap you filthy animal.

I'm gonna. I just wanted to share this beastly sight with others.

Jerel,
I can see a definite reading of 1ppm with Salifert kit, but it's a bit browned out with the floating particles still. I'm gonna let it settle out before I post the final reading. Is there an easier way to test this?

[Sindjin]

I would siphon it... let it all settle and extract your sample from the container after to get more clear water.

Also... post your readings as if you were to just test your tank water to show us the difference.

[Bomber]

Not really, but that way is easy enough.

You got a reading of aprox 1 ppm water soluble ortho-phosphate. Which is a very small percentage of total phosphorus. AND you would not get that reading at all if the bacteria that migrated it out there in the first place were not leaking.

.002 ppm total phosphorus is considered highly eutrophic or hyper eutrophic or eutrophic, depending on who you talk to.

What's the difference between 1 ppm and .002 ppm?

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by Sindjin
I would siphon it... let it all settle and extract your sample from the container after to get more clear water.

Also... post your readings as if you were to just test your tank water to show us the difference.

I will try both ways give both results.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by Bomber
Not really, but that way is easy enough.

You got a reading of aprox 1 ppm water soluble ortho-phosphate. Which is a very small percentage of total phosphorus. AND you would not get that reading at all if the bacteria that migrated it out there in the first place were not leaking.

.002 ppm total phosphorus is considered highly eutrophic or hyper eutrophic or eutrophic, depending on who you talk to.

What's the difference between 1 ppm and .002 ppm?

Does that mean I qualify for funding to clean my tank daily?
Or does that mean the government is going to shut me down and take it?

[Bomber]

They are going to declare it a wet land and take it away.

Unless you are in south Florida, where they are taking away people's home and forcing them out to build a marina, resort, and shopping mall.

[Aquaticman74]

Tank Parameters

Temp: 79.1
Salinity: 1.025
PH: 8.23
Alk: 2.97
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Phosphate: .01

Test for Phosphates in vial with detritus still in it: 1
Test for Phosphates in vial with detritus removed .5

Maybe the brownout helped with the blue in the first test?

[Aquaticman74]

Edit, meant to quote Bomber not myself

[Sindjin]

Wow.... so Spewed detritus adds Phosphates instantly.
Good job, Mike!

This is why we should all cook our rocks.

[NoSchwag]

Mike, you know some people are going to accuse you of having dirty rocks to begin with or not having proper husbandry with your old tank.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by Sindjin
Wow.... so Spewed detritus adds Phosphates instantly.
Good job, Mike!

This is why we should all cook our rocks.

I have to admit that I didn't think I would get any reading from the detritus. It's very scary to think that by using any amount of sand, it would just be sitting in there. This makes me much happier after seeing this, that I chose BB.

[Sindjin]

I have to admit that I didn't think I would get any reading from the detritus. It's very scary to think that by using any amount of sand, it would just be sitting in there. This makes me much happier after seeing this, that I chose BB.

Ditto. That's all we try to say!

Now... if you cook your rocks you can build a tank with hardly any shedding. Eventually stuff will build up in the rock again over the years. BUT in a BB.... it will take much longer because we can control it better by siphoning whenever we see it building up. In a DSB it just sinks into the sand.... out of site/out of mind until the algae comes...

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by NoSchwag
Mike, you know some people are going to accuse you of having dirty rocks to begin with or not having proper husbandry with your old tank.

I'm sure you are right, but the tank is new. The rocks are fresh. The tank was setup early November. what's to accuse? All anyone has to do is read my posts to see a timeline. I have discussed my husbandry several times.

[NoSchwag]

Mike not only that, but ask ANYONE who has cooked thier rocks what the bottom of the buckets look like after a week in the dark and a dunk and swish.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by NoSchwag
Mike not only that, but ask ANYONE who has cooked thier rocks what the bottom of the buckets look like after a week in the dark and a dunk and swish.

Knowing what I have siphoned out the last 5 weeks, I can imagine what you would get out by cooking the rock. I will definitely cook my rocks next time and will be very happy if/when this shedding ends.

Edit: I need to stop chatting and go clean!

[Sindjin]

I did my Siphoning/Water Change Yesterday.
I am happy to say that all I have accumulating today so far is snail poop.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by Sindjin
I did my Siphoning/Water Change Yesterday.
I am happy to say that all I have accumulating today so far is snail poop.

Cool, maybe my nightmare will end soon as well... off to clean!

[Bomber]

by Sindjin
Eventually stuff will build up in the rock again over the years.

That's going to be up to you.

The bacteria are taking highly reactive water soluble P out of the water, just like they are taking ammonium/nitrite out of the water, and migrating it into the rocks.

Water soluble P is hard to find in marine environments, that's why people have severe algae problems but no measurable water soluble P.

If you keep your water dirty enough, yes you can load the rocks again. But, just like water soluble P, that's not easy to do.

[Sindjin]

The bacteria are taking highly reactive water soluble P out of the water, just like they are taking ammonium/nitrite out of the water, and migrating it into the rocks.

Bacteria oxidize NH4 into NO2- and then NO2- into NO3.
Even further, the NO3 is denitrified in to atmospheric N.
That I get.

But can you tell me more about the P cycle? Is there one?
What happens to water soluble P after it is utilized by the bacteria? I want to understand the chemistry of it.