new revised revised fish list feedback

[hlama]

Hey how goes it. Ok here is my revised revised revised list. I have a 72x18x20H tank about 150lbs of live rock with ½� sandbed. 45 gal sump with 30lbs of miracle mud and caulerpa. A sedra 1200gph and 586gph pump for the returm. Total circulating water 140gal. currently have 5 damsels in the sump. Will run like this for 3mo. Then add half the crabs and snails. (Creature list below ). Run with these for additional 3mo. Then add rest of creatures except fire shrimp. Run with these for 1-2mo. Add fire shrimp. Run for 2wk then star to add first group of fish. Approx 8mo. Tank running Before first group goes in. damsels out. then add each group 1-2mo. Apart. (Creature list below )

FISH LIST:

Group #1
1-green clown goby (gobioudon atrangulatrus)
1-yellow clown goby (gobioudon okiwawee)
1-2/twin spot goby (signigobius biocellatus)
1-sailfin blenny (salaries fasciatus)
1-lineatus fairy wrasse (cirrhilabrus lineatus)


Group#2
3-green chromis (chromis viridis)
1-flame angel (centropyge loriculos)
1-flameback angel brazilian (centopyge aurantonus)
1-blue hippon tang (paracanthurus)

Group#3
1-yellow tang (zebrasoma flavescens)
1-regal angel (pygoplites diacanthus )
1-orcid dottyback (fridmani pseudochromis)
1-mandrine goby (synchiropus splendidus)

CREATURES:

5-blood red fire shrimp (lysmata amboinensis)
1-electric blue hermit crab (calcinus elegans)
2-emerald matrix crab (mithrax sculptus)
25-zebra hermit crabs (calcinus laevimanus)
1-red flame serpent starfish (ophioderma rubicundum)
1-tiger serpent starfish (ophiolepsis superba)
30-nassarius snail (nassarius vibex)
15-turbo snails (turbo fluctuosa)

so any thoughts on this list. Good, bad??? And thanks again everyone for the feedback on the last revised list.

[Sting]

You want to put all these fish in your tank? You never listed your exact tank size in gallons but I'm guessing somewhere around 75 or 90?

I think you may be overstocking....but get back to me with how many gallons your tank has.

[hlama]

Originally posted by Sting
You want to put all these fish in your tank? You never listed your exact tank size in gallons but I'm guessing somewhere around 75 or 90?

I think you may be overstocking....but get back to me with how many gallons your tank has.

it is about 120gal plus sump equals 140 total gallons. tank is 6 feet long. o by the way i forgot mention this will be a reef tank.

[hlama]

[I think you may be overstocking....but get back to me with how many gallons your tank has. [/B][/QUOTE]

i really dont count the clown gobies they mostly just kick it with in the rock or just sit on top of it.

[Fat Man]

hlama, i'm sorry to say that I think your stocking plan is a bit grandious. Using the silly 3 inches of fish per 10 gallon rule says you'll need 283 gallons when these fish reach max size to cover the bioload. Now all fish don't have the same energy level, like the clown gobies you mentioned, but you have some pretty active fish on your list, particulary the tangs and angels. Also a 10 inch tang creates more bioload than 3-4 chromis'.

This three inch rule also doesn't account for territorial needs of the specimens. If you gave a specimen an appropriate amount of space for normal behavior it would be alot more than 10 gallons per three inches and you wouldn't count your sump in this figure. You must also remember that the rock you put in decreases the gallons of water in your tank.

Too large a bioload would make it difficult to maintain water quality and coild doom you to faliure.

Just my opinion.

[hlama]

Originally posted by Fat Man
hlama, i'm sorry to say that I think your stocking plan is a bit grandious. Using the silly 3 inches of fish per 10 gallon rule says you'll need 283 gallons when these fish reach max size to cover the bioload. Now all fish don't have the same energy level, like the clown gobies you mentioned, but you have some pretty active fish on your list, particulary the tangs and angels. Also a 10 inch tang creates more bioload than 3-4 chromis'.

This three inch rule also doesn't account for territorial needs of the specimens. If you gave a specimen an appropriate amount of space for normal behavior it would be alot more than 10 gallons per three inches and you wouldn't count your sump in this figure. You must also remember that the rock you put in decreases the gallons of water in your tank.

Too large a bioload would make it difficult to maintain water quality and coild doom you to faliure.

Just my opinion.

i do not go to the 3" rule of school. my tank is 6 feet long so that rule really doesnt work at all with my tank. same gal size tank with deminsions like 48x20x26H (4 feet) i would never think of putting the hippo or the regal in there. and the amount of water is exact (with rock and everything else.) i kept tract of everything and do weekly notes. the cirrculating water is very important in more than just the bio stuff. the more cirrculating water the greater the surface area. example if i had a 400gal sump for this tank it would greatly change the biodynamics involved and over all bio load. the yellow tang i think will only get around 6-7" never seen one grow full size in captivity. the angel yeah gets 10". the hippons have stunted grow in aquariums. meaning they grow to their envirorment, not a 10gal tank or anything like that, but they do they reach 80% of their overall growth with in 5years most in smaller tanks never get past 8" over their life.

that being said i agree it is a full load. but not quite as big of a load as your math might indicate. plus i want to put a heavy load(not to heavy) as i am testing the miracle mud out. that is way i keep exact records of everthing and know the amount of water to be correct. more concerned about aggrestion but still think about the bio load.

[Fat Man]

Hlama I was not trying to get in you face with my response but rather give you something more than just saying "Way to many Dude." Your right the three-inch rule is not really worth much, I used it as an illustration. I believe that rule greatly over estimates an appropriate fish population especially given the differences in mass and activity of differing species.

My fish lengths were based on the maximum aquarium sizes listed at the Live Aquaria web site; they didn't have your wrasse so I estimated it at three inches. Your right my total was wrong I checked it and it’s more like 333 gallons.

When a fish has stunted growth in an aquarium it is due to physiological stress. Not having enough room could be such a stress.

Given the crowded conditions, in my opinion, you are proposing I think you would see some of the aggression you are worried about. That was what I was alluding to in my second paragraph.

I applaud you meticulous record keeping and I stand corrected on your water volume.

I have no comment on the individual species you propose. All would probably be fine in a tank that size, just not all of them. This is just my opinion and you did ask for opinions.

Here is my math:

[makoJ]

Our experience shows us that dottybacks cant be trusted with wrasses. So I would scratch the dottyback, esp. b/c the wrasse you want is gorgeous and pricey!

Im not sure but you might want to check up on the feeding requirements of the twin spots and mandarin. All are hard to support in tank enviornments and the wrasse, twin spots, and mandarins may be outcompeting each other for food.

[hlama]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fat Man
[B]Hlama I was not trying to get in you face with my response but


no worries i never did think you were getting in my face about it. i never intended to make it sound like i was. l just do not believe in that rule. i think you you use it right but it sounded like you were using a fact not a rule of thumb. i think we are on the page though. thanks for the input. i am thinking about leaving something out just want to hear the opinions to help me decide. so far i thinking the twin spot might have to go. FYI besides aggreesion i am real concerned about the avilible food sources and other care issues of the fish community. that is way i am thinking of 86ing the twin spot because the food and i only have a 1/2 sandbed(that is two strikes against him). after i get the other issues taken care of then focus more on bio. so please add more if you see something try to pick my list apart. some thing i am just going to do like the regal angel. i will stock the coral around him if needed. others bye bye no worries. just need to hear more to make a decision. so thanks again.

[Confooseld]

Fish do not grow to your aquarium by any means that is a silly myth that would be nice but is unfortunately not true
It may seem that way but in reality it's just that fish tend to grow really fast hit a point, and then grow dreadfully slowly after the invisible threshold.

[Fat Man]

We're cool.

[hlama]

Originally posted by Confooseld
Fish do not grow to your aquarium by any means that is a silly myth that would be nice but is unfortunately not true
It may seem that way but in reality it's just that fish tend to grow really fast hit a point, and then grow dreadfully slowly after the invisible threshold.

research the blue tang (paracanthurus heptus) i did not realize there was any aguement as to their grow getting stunted. check it out .

[hlama]

Originally posted by Fat Man
We're cool.

lol no i think no mistake were cool. its always good to talk to people that know what they are talking about. not just repeating something they read somewhere.

[hlama]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by makoJ
[B]Our experience shows us that dottybacks cant be trusted with wrasses. So I would scratch the dottyback, esp. b/c the wrasse you want is gorgeous and pricey!

i have heard that too. but the orcid dottyback is supose to be a lot less arrgesive. have heard anything about this dottyback in a tank similar to mine having issues.