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#1
04/22/2005, 10:51 PM
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OM 4 Way with Eductor Test Results
As promised, I competed testing of my OM 4 way with 4 Penductors tonight. I utilized nearly every drum that OM makes for a 4 way. All of the equipment is brand new right out of the box.
Here is a photo of my test loop setup:  My test setup is as follows: Pump - Blueline 70HD 4 Penductors (3/4") on each 4 way port OM 4 way w/ Version 1, 2 and 3 drums Issues: The biggest problem in utilizing the 4 way (or 8 way for that matter) with eductors is that the back pressure from the eductors appears to force the rotating drum against the housing of the 4 way, preventing it from rotating. The drum will resist rotation and cause the magnetic clutch to disengage and slip. This does not damage any part of the 4 way, but does prevent changing flow ports. Results: Version 1: Forget about it, this simply will not work for the reasons detailed above under Issues. I tried modifications to eliminate the backpressure (including drilling holes in the drum, etc.) and could not get it to work.  Version 2: Again, I could not get it to work. Version 3: This worked like a charm without any effort on my part. In fact, to test it initially, I did not put any lubrication on the brand new drum just to see how the drum would work long term (e.g. after all the lubricant has exited into the tank). This worked so well that it is what I'll be using in my tank. It will fully cutoff two eductors at a time and simulate a tidal wave pattern, depending on how you plumb it.  I hope this helps anyone else who is thinking about eductors and an OM 4 way. Bryan PS Ignore the crappy plumbing, I put the whole loop together in about an hour. 
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#3
04/23/2005, 02:59 AM
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How can I tell what version do I have?
- Jason |
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#5
04/23/2005, 07:30 AM
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Okay, bad news. I just got up and the drum has stopped rotating.
Looks like I need to find that lubricant and take it all apart, again. I'll post some more results later today after I get it back up and running. BTW I forgot to add in the original post that the switching action makes a mini tsunami that almost puts water over the lip of the tank! Looks like I may have to go bare bottom in my 375 gallonb tank. Bryan |
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#6
04/23/2005, 07:38 AM
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Jason - you can tell the version that you have by either a) taking it apart and looking at the drum or b) figuring out how the flow ports change over time with the pump and 4 way running. B) is much easier.
Version 1: Ports 1, 2, 3, 4 one at a time in that sequence. Version 2: Ports 1 & 2, 2&3 etc in sequence Version 3: Ports 1&3, 2&4, 1&3 etc Version 4: 1,2 &3 on, 4 off then 2,3 &4 on 1 off, etc. I did not test Version 4 as it is only for use with the revolutions. HTH Bryan |
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#7
04/23/2005, 09:14 AM
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Bryan,
I found while playing with my 4-way that if you tighten the 4 nylon screws to much the drum starts to bind. Sort of indexing around the drum. I had one of the nylon screws break on me. I was not turning it to much then it just snapped! My LFS called Paul @ OM told him what happened. He sent out 12 new screws overnight shipping. Now that is customer service! |
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#8
04/23/2005, 10:25 AM
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Bryan, thanks for the info. Gotta say I'm disappointed with the results so far.
When you first mentioned the problem, I was convinced it was the Magnetic Clutch giving you problems. Looks like the older versions have the same issue. Just read the thread over at OceansMotions Forum. Running the 4Way on Eductors is a great water movement setup, looking forward to you figuring out a good way to do it. I still feel the Version 2 is the best design, but the version 3 might not be bad. Keep us posted. |
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#9
04/23/2005, 12:24 PM
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The one thing I need to talk with Paul about is the friction experienced through the magnetic assembly. I have two recommended fixes I need to talk with Paul about. I guess that is what I get for being an engineer.
Because Paul can custom build anything on his CNC machines, I think we'll solve this.Hef - The fact is that the 4 way simply was not designed to do what I am asking it to do. I want to stress that Paul makes an incredible piece of hardware, but I am using it in a way that it is not designed for. I do have another way to utilize Penductors on a variable flow system (via an automated 3 way valve) that is about the same cost wise, but it is more complex to accomplish. HTH Bryan |
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#11
04/25/2005, 09:25 AM
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I finally found this thread. I have done very similar testing, and know all to well the sound of slipping magnets.
I would try this at home, but my tank is all set-up and hard to experiment in like yours. Try using 2 eductors on each port (8 total) if you can get enough eductors. I know this will help reduce pressure. When I was seting up my tank I had a Hammerhead pump running 4 eductors on each port on a 4-way and it worked. Right now I am running a Blueline HD 100 on a 4-way and it works, just not that well. I have a self-modified drum that is somewhere between a version #2 and #4. Also, do you have a Blueline HD 55 or equivalent pump? If you do try that on your set-up with a version #1, I think it might work very well. (less pressure, but running less ports then the 70) Good luck, and thanks for the testing. 
__________________
When all else fails, turn up the flow!!! |
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#13
04/25/2005, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
__________________
When all else fails, turn up the flow!!! |
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#14
04/25/2005, 09:32 PM
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I talked with Paul at OM yesterday (he called me) and we came up with some additional items to test. You have to love the customer service at OM, they call me when they read on my thread that I am having issues.
I will post additional testing results when I receive the new toys to play with. I guess I'll be testing a prototype drum and 4 way. Maybe I'll have to buy 4 more Penductors. littlesilvermax - Unfortunatly I do not have a 55 laying around. Last edited by Bryan89; 04/25/2005 at 09:48 PM. |
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#16
04/27/2005, 10:13 AM
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Hope you figure this one out. I was think of doing the same on my tank. I was going to run a Barracuda for a return but was worried about the back pressure slowing it down. Do you guys think a Barracuda could run the penductors on the 4-way or not?
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Steve |
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#17
04/27/2005, 06:20 PM
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The backpressure issue is not a function of the pump, rather it is a function of the Penductor. If you utilized the larger diameter Penductors, it 'may' work. I am utilizing the .280" diameter Penductors.
For followup, I recently came across a 1.5" automated threeway valve for comparison testing. Bryan |
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#18
04/27/2005, 08:54 PM
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I have read a lot of the testing that Ben has done. It seems you both have run into the same jam. (no pun intended)
I have been looking at the motor specs on the 8 way I have. I wonder if Paul has tried to use a different motor? This is a link to the data sheet on the OM 8 way motor part # 3202-003 http://www.myhurst.com/hurstmfg/qser...chronous+Motor look at this motor it offers 25% more torque and has the same face and shaft configuration part number 2602-001 http://www.myhurst.com/hurstmfg/qser...chronous+Motor
__________________
NO my CBB has never killed, ate, destroyed, harmed or abused any coral in my tank. |
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#19
04/27/2005, 11:55 PM
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It is not the torque of the motor, it is the strength of the magnets. Paul is working on a different solution though.
__________________
When all else fails, turn up the flow!!! |
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#22
04/28/2005, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
__________________
When all else fails, turn up the flow!!! |
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#24
04/28/2005, 05:46 PM
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I know the shaft was designed to snap easily, I think to keep from damaging the drum in case of obstruction. So the Mag Clutch could work just like the shaft. Probably easy to make the shaft a little stronger.
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