Long time 20k users?

[attml]

I have a few questions for long term 20k users about the use of 20ks and the bulb styles. It seems like there are a lot of people who either love or hate 20K bulbs. Love or hate XMs or Radiums. It seems like a lot of these folks have tried 20Ks one time and hated them yet I still always see folks with beautiful corals that are using 20ks. If you are a 20K die hard and have been using them for the last several bulb changes please chime in.

1. Did you see a huge decrease in growth when you switched to 20Ks from 10K?
2. What brand 20K bulb do you like better and why? Radium, XM or other?
3 How long before the 20K bulbs loose enough intensity that they need swapped out again?

Thank you very much!

[justgettinstarted]

1. No, not at all
2. I like 20k Aqua Bushke DE (but they are not on your list) They have the crispest most blue color that i have seen, they do not wash stuff out into the purple range.
3. I let mine go for 10 months, but 1 year is the average, they are the same as any other MH bulb, except just in a different frequency.

UNLESSSSSSSSS.... you are running a 20k SE radium on an HQI ballast and overpowering it, then it should be changed every 6 months.

[jackson6745]

1) Maybe a little, not sure though
2) 250w DE 20k AB because it is the whitest, brightest 250w 20k that I have seen
3)I've been using these bulbs for about 5 months (I know i'm not a long term user ) but so far so good

FWIW I noticed a big difference in my blues, purples, and greens when switching from 10k's to 20k's

[bbkid4]

I agree with you guys, the AB 20k's are the whitest and brightest looking 20k's out there. I love mine and I dont think I would try any other 20k bulbs.

[kelhuffman]

1. No decrease in growth at all switching from 250W 10K AB SE to 400W PFO HQI Radium SE. That said, no increased intensity in color of corals to speak of.
2. Only ever used Radiums.
3. at 10 months but I could see no color shift, and no reaction from corals after putting in new bulbs.

Which leads me to question the short lifespan theory of Radiums driven by PFO HQI. Does anyone have a study they can point me to that shows the decrease in par, or spectrum shift after 6 months. I'm going with another bulb shortly, but I've never seen anything in my lights or my corals to validate this assumption.

[attml]

Thank you very much for the replies! Anybody with 400w 20 K Moguls out there that would like to chime in?

[dcamp]

I have 4-400 watt XM Moguls running on my 300's and like them very much. They are about 7 months old on 2nd set of bulbs. Ran 1st set 14 months and were still a bright as the new ones. Colors are great but growth seems to have slowed a little. Ran AB 10k"s for years but wanted more blue. May try XM 10K's next time around.

[Pineapple House]

Hey Mark!
Hows your tank doing?

1. The growth slightly slowed, although it wasn't enough to make a huge difference. On average, I had roughly 1/4"-1/2" of growth monthly from the corals using a 20,000k 400wt Radium.
2. I've been using the Radium for awhile now. I am currently using 20,000k XM's. The XM's are very blue and the bring out amazing coral coloration (Esspecially pink and green). However, the XM's are very dim. The radiums are great bulbs which are much more intense than the XM's, although they will need to be replaced every 6-8 months and loose their intensity quickly.
3. I would switch out my radiums every 8 months. Why? Because this is what I hear is best. I didn't see any difference in coloration or growth between the 2nd month of running the bulbs and the 8th month of running the bulb.

I've just tried out the XM's two weeks ago. So far, the growth is the same and the coloration is spectacular.

Graham

[Todd March]

Just something to remember: 250W DE AC/Pheonix 14K on M80 ballasts=Sun-Agro 400W Radiums (HQI)... Plus the AC/Pheonix 14K's last well over a year, unlike the Sun-Agro Radiums...

[Rivenjim]

why is there all ways someone who has to bring up a 14k bulb in a 20k post??? anyways i wish ushio would make a single ended version of there 20k bulb that would be nice

[Todd March]

Originally posted by Rivenjim
why is there all ways someone who has to bring up a 14k bulb in a 20k post???

Uhhh, because I was comparing it to one of the most popular and beloved of the 20K's...? And maybe because I wanted to get the word out that there are nearly identical color options to this beloved overdriven and short lived Radium...?

[burntom]

1. Did you see a huge decrease in growth when you switched to 20Ks from 10K?

I switched from 14Ks a while ago, but got into SPS after that. I have had pretty good growth though.

2. What brand 20K bulb do you like better and why? Radium, XM or other?

I have the Megachromes, but they're too expensive. I don't see anything that makes them worth that much (though no particular complaints either).

3 How long before the 20K bulbs loose enough intensity that they need swapped out again?

I'm banking on about a year...

[ReeferMac]

Originally posted by justgettinstarted
UNLESSSSSSSSS.... you are running a 20k SE radium on an HQI ballast and overpowering it, then it should be changed every 6 months.

Yeah, and it sucks...
Corals look GREAT tho!

- Mac

[Big E]

Todd,

The color may be the same but according to Sanjay's table the Radiums par is 147 vs the Phoenix at 85. That may matter to some, plus it seems Attml isn't interested in buying new ballasts,reflectors & fixtures.

The 400w 20k XM on the HQI is 98. Which confirms the visual dimness mentioned. On the M59 ballast they are at 127.

I'm using the 400w 20k XM on the blueline electornic ballasts(91 par) I've used the Radiums & XM's & like the XM's better for color & growth. They also cast a less blue light.

I'm going to try the M59's with the Xm's. I can DIY the m59's on the cheap & it looks like a good option of adding par with a low cost bulb that lasts a year.

[easttn]

SE Radiums 6 - 8 months life span on an overdriven ballast, crisp hot blue.

SE XM 9 - 12 months same ballast, almost purple - back to radiums .

Never tried the others.

I recently added a 14K beteween the two, great look.

[SptfireXIV]

I'm using a Giesemann Megachrome 20k, and I like it even better than the AB 20k bulb I used to run. The AB bulb made my entire tank look purple, this one brings it back to blue.

I doubt that the kelvin of your bulb honestly has that much effect on growth, there's too many other factors that come into play that have more importance.

The difference between AB and Giesemann

AB


Giesemann Megachrome


If you look at the coraline algae in both pictures, the AB makes it look bright purple, the Giesemann makes it look more blue and green.

[my2girls]

I know, sorry for the 14K reference. But XM 20K SE and Coralvue 14K SE look identical. I have used them both side by side. If there is any difference, the 14K may be a tad brighter. Note: both burned on a magnetic ballast.

[justgettinstarted]

what i remember hearing is that you really cant tell the difference in the radiums as you look at them every day, but when you put the new ones in they are noticably brighter. I dont have this setup though so i cant tell from personal experience

[ReeferMac]

I had let me Radiums (on HQI) get to be about 15 months old. That was a HUGE mistake.. had stuff dying off on me left and right.
When I finally did get new bulbs in, I put one in, and compared it side-by-side to the 15-month old one... couldn't spot a difference.
Swapped bulbs, put the old back in, the other new one in the other side... couldn't see a difference. Maybe, if I told you which one was new, you might have seen something, but....

... I'll never let my Radiums go passed 9 months again however. Without any doubt in my mind, that was one reason I was losing corals.

- Mac

[Achilles]

I've used Radiums on blueline e-ballasts in the past and currently with Ushio blue bulbs now.

Visually, would you guys think that the XM20ks are any less bluer/dimmer than the Ushio blues?

Achilles

[kelhuffman]

Responding to a couple things:

The color may be the same but according to Sanjay's table the Radiums par is 147 vs the Phoenix at 85. That may matter to some, plus it seems Attml isn't interested in buying new ballasts,reflectors & fixtures.

Yeah that 147 is correct on an PFO HQI, but I don't think the Phoenix reference is right because that's a DE bulb. The same study shows the new aquaconnect 14K SE 400W at 170 PAR on PFO HQI, so potentially its a better bulb since it has the same peak in spectrum but better PAR. Also, found an older Sanjay study that showed Radium SE 400W on PFO HQI with a PAR of 110, which is obviously much lower than his more recent study.

When I finally did get new bulbs in, I put one in, and compared it side-by-side to the 15-month old one... couldn't spot a difference.

Neither can I. I've never "seen" any difference in spectrum or intensity when changing the bulbs, nor seen a response in my coral coloration. Just going on what I'm told, that the Radiums are done after 6 - 8 months, and swapping them out without truly knowing they have to be swapped out. Kinda reminds me of swapping carbon, never really know when.

[Big E]

Thats true kelhuffman, but I was responding to this........

Just something to remember: 250W DE AC/Pheonix 14K on M80 ballasts=Sun-Agro 400W Radiums (HQI)... Plus the AC/Pheonix 14K's last well over a year, unlike the Sun-Agro Radiums

Those AC bulbs are 3 times the cost of XM's.....not an option for me, but for others it might be.

[kelhuffman]

Big E you're right, two different setups and your reply was in context. But working with what we have, for example 400W SE PFO HQI and what might work best, then the options get more limited. I've been on the Radium kick for a little under two years, and I don't like what I see in terms of coral coloration compared to my 250W DE Ushio 10Ks in the basement that bring out the colors of the same corals in the same system at the same distance. For me this obviously points to the bulbs because everything else remains constant. So, reading all this latest sanjay data and the associated conjecture I decided I had two choices to potentially improve my situation given the same equipment. 400W XM 10K and 400W AC 14K. I like my Radium color as I have a 250W 10K AB SE bulb on an icecap that runs with them. So I decided that this week I'm rich, and took the plunge on two AC bulbs. They'll be here Tuesday. I'm expecting MIRACLES!! If they look the same to my eye as the Radiums, I'm swapping out my AB bulb with the 250W XM 10K as that has much higher par on the icecap, according to Sanjays study.

[Big E]

I hear ya, makes sense to me. I hope they are awesome bulbs & I'm sure the price will go down some eventually.

[ReeferMac]

Jeeze, I'm having trouble swallowing 4 radium's a year, and you guys are buying more expensive bulbs!

- Mac