flower pot taboo????

drock59 · #1 01/25/2004, 02:28 PM

i read in a thread that a flower pot is sort of taboo to have in ones tank. any ideas on why this is? My lfs always has them in and they sell like hot cakes. I dont have one personally but i would like to know the story behind this. thanks

DgenR8 · #2 01/25/2004, 02:38 PM

They sell like hotcakes because people keep replacing the ones that die in their tanks.
Flowerpot or Goniopora, have a very dismal survival rate in captivity. There just isn't enough known about them to figure out what it is that they need, but it appears to be something very few people have in their tanks.

frog_toad_99 · #3 01/25/2004, 03:04 PM

They should not be sold, period. Another LFS making a quick buck, it's pratices like this that give this hobby such a bad rap and rightfully so. "This bleached Condy is 4 bucks what a deal" ahhhhh These shops have to start hearing from US the consumer that we want aquacultured and will pay extra for it. I have a shop that sells them like crazy too, I won't even go there for food and I let them know why

nanocat · #4 01/25/2004, 03:48 PM

I hear ya, but if I stopped shopping at LFS that sold goniopora, I'd have to mail order everything. I don't think there's a LFS in all of OC that doesn't sell them.

My closest store just started selling Upsidedown Jellyfish.

Unfortunately they're really pretty, they "look" healthy, and they're cheap. I'm sure that they'll sell dozens of them to unsuspecting customers. That's just sad.

drock59 · #5 01/25/2004, 07:09 PM

so, the reason why they are taboo is that they cant hardly be kept. correct? Seems a little messed up that the LFS sells this stuff still. I guess they are trying to make a living just like i am. I will mention something to the owner and see what he says.

DgenR8 · #6 01/25/2004, 07:22 PM

He's likely to tell you that if you buy this, that, and three of these to add to your system, Goniopora is easy to keep. This way, he not only sells the coral, but also a mish mosh of chemicals and additives. When the Goni dies anyway, he'll sell you some test kits, explaining how you must have overdosed all that other crap he sold you, and a new Goni to go with your new test kits.

drock59 · #7 01/25/2004, 08:12 PM

That is the thing about this lfs. one of the owners is like you said above and the other is not. I will talk with the guy that will not try and swindle me. THanks for all the replies.

oama · #8 01/28/2004, 11:18 PM

LOL

I read the title of the thread...And automatically thought it was about terracotta flower pots.

Can you tell I'm into clownfish?

drock59 · #9 01/28/2004, 11:42 PM

bump^^^

Ravenlegs · #10 01/28/2004, 11:50 PM

Muahaha let them tera cotta pots go!

Yes indeed they die and die fast and I dont like the idea that it happens but my friends what if nobody tries ? I mean at this point ALL reefs are said to have only 5o years left period. At this point anything we can save and propagate should be our highest priority if we really practice what we preach.

What about Morgan Lindsted of Inland Aquatics he is said to have flower pots that have reproduced not to mention that have flat out just thrived!

I dont buy it myself this hands of thinking. I knew the facts when I bought a flower pot however prior to that and after my research the best information I found from a very famous Marine person that will remained unnamed he stated what was needed was a refugium a large sand bed established critters as well as tank that was well established.

Also it was mentioned that flower pots environment are murky dark waters thus I use the slurry method of covering feeding of my flower pot in a mass cloud of food.

To date I am going on 7 months and there are no signs of distress in the coral perhaps I am lucky I dont know but If the day comes when these corals are needed to replenish reefs I will happily and proudly pay the shipping.

I am confident if I keep up my same methods of care and feeding of corals and you know many dont even believe in feeding at all just blasting corals with high MH light my flower pot will thrive and be there healthy thriving.

Well bring it on someone has to try.

R.

drock59 · #11 01/29/2004, 12:18 AM

pretty sad that we are on the path to destroy the most beautiful thing on the earth, not to mention how vital it is to so many creatures. unbeleivable that we can go to mars but cant fix our own problems here on earth. i find it funny that we can go millions of miles away but cant go 35K feet down to the darkest depths of the ocean. The older i get it seems to hit home more and more, the role that each and everyone of us has in keeping the earth clean for the future. enough said about that.

Congratulations on keeping the flower pot!

absolut · #12 01/29/2004, 12:33 AM

Quote:

pretty sad that we are on the path to destroy the most beautiful thing on the earth

I hear ya, I find it hard to believe that we can destroy something so vast and widespread in so little time.............

I try not to believe that 50 yr estimate

drock59 · #13 01/29/2004, 01:02 AM

It seems to me that we destroy a lot of things that we encounter. look back in history at many explorers, etc. i think that we do so many horrible things to our world and for what???? So we can save a few pennies here or there? makes no sense. A good example is toilet paper. why is it white? Does it need to be white? you are gonna wipe your butt with it! Companies spend money to bleach the paper, with harmful chemicals that we end up paying for in a cost transfer. The cost is shifted to us in the long run. Why not use recycled paper. Why cut down the rain forest? why use oil? why not use anything sustainable?
The new thing that really gets me is the "swiffer." use and throw it away. im sure they arent biodegradable. Seems like the whole world is out of control and on a consumption craze. just doing a little venting here.

primesuspekt · #14 01/29/2004, 06:40 PM

i have had a green gonipora in my tank for over 1.5yrs and has reproduced like 6 little goniporas as well. i dont do a thing to them, they just sit on the sand bed and thrive. i guess i was extreemly lucky. Its also the home of my clown fish. I have also herd that they are hard to keep alive but i guess this one was a survivor at least for right now.

Ravenlegs · #15 01/29/2004, 06:52 PM

Indeed I was wondering for myself my reef is a lifelong part of my family and my life I dont plan on ever taking it down.

When I cannot care for it I want it to go to one of my kids that have been taught reefkeeping and have a interest.

I do not like the idea that I may never see a real reef in my lifetime its sad and foolish how we destroy something that is clearly intereconected to all of us.

To quote a Disney film "All drains lead to the Sea" So really how many of you out there have made a commitment to keeping your Reefs eh? I often wonder if there are people out there that it is only a passing fancy time and time again thru my local fish club someone is selling a system at least two a year is the norm some for financial troubles and also having not the time to care for it.

And you talk about sad how sad is that starting something like that spending such amounts of money then as a last resort tearing it down like tank full of guppies.

R.

PS The other thing I forgot to mention as stated above I do not move the flower pot I never have other than a tiny nudge away from the glass.

pixburg-reefer · #16 01/30/2004, 08:43 PM

I got a free baby green goni from the pet store. It is smaller than a penny, so I had to glue the base onto a rock. But, it does seem to do best when it is on my sand, under VHO, and NO current. It seems to hate that, so, it is hard to put it some place in my tank ware it is happy. I have been messing with it for months. It is still alive, no tissue loss. But, it won't open fully, unless in a dark area. So, that is ware it is. At the bottom of my tank, under a powerhead, in the corner. I don't feed it either.
But, I to try not to think about the reefs being gone in 50 years. By the time I graduate and get out of collage for marine biology, I will be like 23 or 25. To think that is in like 10 years, then their is only 40 years left. That is so sad. And it is so hard to get ppl to recognize the importance of the ocean, and we need to save it. But ppl don't care because it isn't directly affecting them, and it isn't happening now so "we have time to fix it" or "who cares, it's not important" but, isn't it true that like 70% of OUR OXYGEN is made from the kelp forests that grow like a foot a day?!?!!!!!( I got that fact from an ocean dvd i have) and if we kill it, well then, what will happen!?! People need to start caring, and I wish their was some way we could help the reefs. I know that we will probably NEVER stop collecting corals, but propagation is a great start.
But if you think about it, if 1/3 of the ppl that go in the ocean water, ware sun lotion, or something, how does that affect the water! Think of how we use different soaps, lotions, and stuff, making sure that when we put our own hands in the water of our tank, we don't affect it by something we have on our arms or hands.
Sorry for the long post, a lot to think about when it comes to this subject
Kelly

PRC · #17 02/02/2004, 04:30 PM

drock59, since I see your interests include reading I'd like to suggest Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals: Selection, Husbandry and Natural History". The book includes a detailed description of the issues with captive care of Goniopora from the perspective of someone who has had experience with probably hundreds of these animals rather than having had a "lucky" experience with one or two. If I remember correctly he mentions that it is not uncommon for them to last up to a year in captivity before death, most likely due to slow starvation.

Sam Pirozzolo · #18 02/19/2004, 08:59 AM

The fact we can have this discussion makes me happy to be a RC member.

Thanks RC!

Ravenlegs · #19 02/20/2004, 01:17 AM

God darn it Sam what a great attitude I really like that forever a newbie man I join you in that.

Forever learning more and loving it still.

Yes its great we talk about things even flower pots but like old Bob Fenner and many other longtime Marine people say" Its important to share your information especially regarding corals with dismal surviability rates" So just so I dont feel guilty I have to add the following.

What has worked for me is putting it on the substrate as far as current it likes a gentle flow but not strong enough to bend the polyps in half when there stretching out.

I was feeding it everyday I am doing every two days at the moment I also cover it with a pop bottle when I feed it I use a slurry mix of brine formula one and cyclops its mostly liquid with very tiny specs of whole matter.

What I have noticed is that it will take in tiny specs of food but covering it with the cloud of food method theres a bigger inflation of the polyps then just syringing it over the coral directly targeting.

Other than that I have never moved it. Its placed on sandy dolmite substrate I do have a heavly stocked refugium as well.

Other than that I wanted to try it I know the statistics however if now one gives em a shot we will not be seeing any of them in there near future.

Thanks.
R.

MadTownMax · #20 02/20/2004, 11:22 AM

In Calfo's propigation book he mentions that Goniopora may benifit from stirring the very top layer of sand to get bacteria and other "absorbables" into the water column that the goniopora's feed on.

Kinda off-topic
I saw an incredibly bright yellow-green short-stalked Goniopora at the LFS a couple of days ago, and yesterday noticed that some of the top-most polyps were turning brown (this is at the bottom of a 20" tank under PC's. Wondering if anyone has a clue as if this one is responding to not-enough or too-much light? I'd like to give this one a try, but have only heard captive-care techniques for the longer-stemmed varieties, anyone have any input on shorter stemmed species?

drock59 · #21 02/20/2004, 11:38 AM

the point of this thread is that you shouldnt keep Flower Pots. I dont know why everyone keeps jumping in asking if they are doing things right or if they should get one. NO you shouldnt get it and you should say something to the LFS.

MadTownMax · #22 02/20/2004, 11:40 AM

Although gonioporas should mostly be left alone, Calfo states in his book that some have had success (i.e. growth and asexual reproduction) using very simple techniques such as regular "stirring" of the sand bed. If you browse over RC you will see that there are a few people here that have kept their goniopora's for in excess of two years.

RC is a place to learn and discuss, If your answer to every question is simply "NO", progression in this hobby might as well forgotten.

From what i have read thus far in all of the information I could find on this difficult-to-keep species, I think my tank has very favorable conditions for it's care, and I was just curious as to people's experiences specifically with the short-stemmed variety.

Thank you very much for your opinion, now, has anyone ever kept a short-stemmed variety?

drock59 · #23 02/20/2004, 11:41 AM

I dont think they should be kept. Did you read any of the posts in the begining of this thread?? if not i think it would be worth your time to do so.

Sam Pirozzolo · #24 02/20/2004, 01:23 PM

I have to agree with Madtownmax. We are here to learn. We ARE NOT here to get snippy or impose our will on to others. The way I see it is like the age old question - Which came first the chicken or the egg? I also agree that the lfs shouldn't sell them. But we as a group can not even hope to even put a slight dent in to the number of flower pots being sold. I would think that as a member of this fourm most of us care a bit more than the average person and MAYBE we care for our tanks a bit better also. Who better than a R/C member to help solve the death rate of these corals.
We are all gulity of takeing sea life and putting in our tanks. Over the ten years I have been involved in the hobby the changes have been great. Maybe in the next few years we can find the answer to flower pots and even the elegance coral problem that Eric is working on now.

I say this with hesitation but if the flower pot is in the store it is as good as dead. Telling the store owner to stop making a living won't work. Buy it - try it - object to it. What ever. We still need to find a soultion that works!

Sam Pirozzolo

drock59 · #25 02/20/2004, 01:27 PM

i agree. Im just saying that they shouldnt be kept. Just my opinion. Also, i dont think just because we would put a small dent in the amount being sold, that we should buy them. that like saying i dont want to recycle because what difference am i going to make. Im not trying to be snappy at all, im just stating my opinion and it is not my intent to offend anyone. If anyone was, my apologies.