Beware Of Fragfarmers

[danieletheridge]

I bought a Sunset Monti frag from him and not only did it arrive very stressed and completely unhealthy but it's a damn knock-off! The corralites extrude upward like small nodules or bumps. It also lacks the true brilliance of the True Sunset Monti. It also encrusts completely different. I already had a frag of the real species that I got from YR and the difference is like apples and oranges. The more it grows the more you can tell it's a knock-off. I contacted Eric at Fragfarmers about it and he would never directly answer my questions dealing directly with the corals' corralite structure, color and other discrepencies. He only told me that THIS time he wouldn't add me to his little "blacklist" of "problem customers" that he says he shares with the three major coral vendors. Like I should feel lucky for getting ripped off and then threatened! I wouldnt recommend anyone supporting his business, I just feel sorry for the other people that dont know any better and have also been ripped off. What a jerk.

[dots]

I doubt this to be true, Eric is a VERY reputable dealer and very well respected by those who know him within the reefing community.

I find this statement laughable.......

Here is the real on for you "comparison"

[delsol650]

Erics, a cool dude. Met him at the BA-CFM. bought some corals from him and even a calk reactor. Did you post what your water parameters are, how long you've had it in the tank, did you properly acclimatize it to water and lighting changes from his tank to yours, I have 2 True tyree sunset montis, 1 thats been in the tank is deep orange with bright green polyps.. the new one that I got a month ago is still light orange and light green polyps.. It did take my 1st sunset a long time to fully color up and finally get used to my tank water and light parameters.

Plus before bashing ANYONE, Eirc or anyone being bashsed should be given a right to say their side.

[brianbigoats]

Eric is one of very fair and truth full people you will meet if he says it is the real deal it is. you will find lots of people with the same opinion. i have bought lots of frags from him they are aways super high quality. Sunsets seem to look diffrent in everyones tanks mine has such a huge amount of PE that it looks green with just a small amount of orange peaking through

this is the real deal got it from Clint Conway(Diamonds in the Reef)

you might want to look at Tyree's site when he first got the sunset the corallites were very sunken in so it looks like there are lots of bumps in between them this is a stress reaction. Give it Time
i have heard of the black list you don't want on it

[sidog1]

I was at Slojmn's place yesterday picking up some frags and we both got sunsets from Clint Conway as well. However, mine is nothing like hers. She has a very beautiful deep orange sunset while mine is pale still.

Eric is a great guy to deal with in my experience. I've gotten stuff shipped from him and also met him at his store and reefapalooza. His corals are top quality...

[RasBobre]

Once again somebody comes onto the MARS website to publicly rip a business with little to no posts and thinks that their opinion is rightful. As of now, every response has been positive for Eric and Frag Farmers.

And I will add to it....

Originally posted by dots
I doubt this to be true, Eric is a VERY reputable dealer and very well respected by those who know him within the reefing community.

Originally posted by delsol650
Erics, a cool dude.

Originally posted by brianbigoats
Eric is one of very fair and truth full people you will meet if he says it is the real deal it is. you will find lots of people with the same opinion. i have bought lots of frags from him they are aways super high quality.

Originally posted by sidog1
Eric is a great guy to deal with in my experience. I've gotten stuff shipped from him and also met him at his store and reefapalooza. His corals are top quality...

Eric donated a $50 dollar gift certificate to a MARS raffle about four years ago that I was fortunate to win. Not only did that jester provide me with a nice coral, but more importantly started a professional and personal friendship.

Eric also donated over three hundred dollars worth of corals for the Western Marine Conference raffle.

Obviously danieltheridge is new in the hobby or has started a new screen name to rip on Eric. Yes, there are variables in every coral. I have seen so many Leng Sy monti caps that have looked differently it is silly. But different lighting to the same strain of coral can produce a totally different looking piece.

I am quite confident that Eric did everything he possible could to satisfy this customer with his knowledge of the frag, but apparently danieltheridge had a predetermined image in his head as to what his purchase was going to look like and when it wasn't what he expected he went off on Eric.


Here is a photo of my Sunset that I purchased from Steve Tyree at the BACFM 2006.

[danieletheridge]

Yeah guys, I'm just an idoit that doesnt know anything....I'm new to this forum and all I've seen on every thread is someone posting an opinion and everybody and their mom bashing on something they dont agree with like some teenager chat room on AOL. Why would I have taken the time to even post something like this if what I had expierienced wasnt true. Now, I'm new to this site so please tell me how to upload a picture, then I will be able to show you the coral frag from the day I recieved it, and even today's real time shot of the Sunset Monti I purchased through Your Reef, and the one purchased from Fragfarmer. Then you can comment on the differences and let me know if I'm wrong. I would have loved to receive a frag that I didnt have to doubt. I never said I had bad customer service with Eric. On the contrary. He offered me a refund immediatly and was swift to react. He just wouldnt address the issues concerning the difference in corralite structure since I already had a frag and was comparing the two. On the true sunset monti, the corralites are almost concaved, sinking into the skeleton, not away from the skeleton like the corralites on say a tuberculosa. And actually thats what this specimen looks like, a tuberculosa. I've done my homework, I've asked reputible dealers, and then I decided to share my expierence on this thread to everybody's dismay.
Please tell me how to upload the pics since they cant come from my hard drive. Thanks.

Daniel.....

[tuberider]

Originally posted by danieletheridge
Yeah guys, I'm just an idoit that doesnt know anything....

[JJ4417]

Easiest way is to get a photobucket account. It is free. After uploading on that site, copy the img link. In your post, just paste the link where you want the pic to appear in your text.

Plus there is a faq on here on how to post pics.

[cwegescheide]

Well I have ordered from all kinds of online dealers as well as Eric at Fragfarmer. Most of the time I have had great experiences and here recently I've had a little trouble with corals not making it (Not from Fragfarmer, other vendors).

Things happen and people are human, mistakes happen. Just as long as the vendor tries to make it right with you then I wouldn't try and bash somebody. Maybe your conversation with Eric was percieved to be confrontational and thus he mentioned the "black list". Any time I have a problem like that I try to work it out amicably but am usually a little miffed that I have to eat the shipping. Next day from CA to FL is pretty expensive.

I had a problem once when I ordered from Eric but he took care of me and I wouldn't be leary of ordering from him in the future.

My suggestion is to resolve these issues in private and give the vendor the opportunity to make it right. You did say that Eric offered to make it right and it sounds like your still rippin him. Remember this business is some people's livelyhood and its not right to try to undermine them if they make it right. Now if they dont then by all means, BOMBS AWAY!!

[dots]

To upload pictures, get a photobucket account and copy/paste the img code into the message field.

www.photobucket.com

If you have two, if they are both of the same colony, they will fuse together......the best test to prove they are or are not is to place them together to see if they do. If not, one will get stung.

Regardless, you were probably just trying to give a "heads up" and I apologize for jumping all over you, which in retrospect was a knee jerk reaction to all of these "gossip" threads lately. Putting myself in your shoes, was not the cool thing to do.

Now that you have another piece, I am sure your mystery will unfold on its own.

[Nu2SW]

Originally posted by danieletheridge
Yeah guys, I'm just an idoit that doesnt know anything....I'm new to this forum and all I've seen on every thread is someone posting an opinion and everybody and their mom bashing on something they dont agree with like some teenager chat room on AOL.

Amen to that........

And they wonder why the LFS are not wanting to do business with M.A.R.S

[danieletheridge]

I'll post those pics as soon as I can, gotta go help a friend set up his 100g tank...probally tonight.

[Justin74]

Originally posted by Nu2SW
Amen to that........

And they wonder why the LFS are not wanting to do business with M.A.R.S

Probably because some members can't go on without making a stink of something! Let it die man, your carrying your animosity from one thread to another isn't necessary. And in reading the other, now this, makes the two contradictory.

Personally dont know Eric, nor have I ever bought from there sight so Im not a good character witness in this lynching. But it seems to me, especially from a legal background that this thread just wreaks of liability. Do please be carefull, as some have
mentioned this is someones lively-hood, and if directly affected could be grounds for legal action.

I also think you would've received a more sincere response to your plight if you would've tried another angle, for example"tell me what you think of this.." and describe the situation. Then if accompanied with pictures, you would have been more inclined to get a real unbiased response, and possibly even the one that you've already assumed to be true. But the current angle just puts you in the defensive position, and any genuine intentions get fogged in the big cloud of dust this type of thread makes.


Look forward to the pictures

-Justin

[Nu2SW]

Originally posted by Justin74
Probably because some members can't go on without making a stink of something! Let it die man, your carrying your animosity from one thread to another isn't necessary. And in reading the other, now this, makes the two contradictory.

Personally dont know Eric, nor have I ever bought from there sight so Im not a good character witness in this lynching. But it seems to me, especially from a legal background that this thread just wreaks of liability. Do please be carefull, as some have
mentioned this is someones lively-hood, and if directly affected could be grounds for legal action.

I also think you would've received a more sincere response to your plight if you would've tried another angle, for example"tell me what you think of this.." and describe the situation. Then if accompanied with pictures, you would have been more inclined to get a real unbiased response, and possibly even the one that you've already assumed to be true. But the current angle just puts you in the defensive position, and any genuine intentions get fogged in the big cloud of dust this type of thread makes.


Look forward to the pictures

-Justin

My animosity is that people on here are so wound up so dam tight, they have to make a big damn deal about everything.... You tell me to let it die, But then you responded in both threads.

If you want things to die, dont respond at all.... But people cant do that and then you irritate other people and members, So deal with it.

Dont respond to threads like this at all and they will get pushed down, Hell make your own weird posts and help push it down.


People are entitled to thier opinion and it aint the clubs or no ones job to lecture that person on it. Say oh so sorry for your troubles and continue forward.

Holding the stores or vendors responsible is the best way to keep their act in line. By not stating your negative opinion and only posting good, is complete BS.


Go ahead and act as blinded consumers.

[Justin74]

My stating let it die was insinuating to leave it on that thread, being that is the topic of that thread. If you dont want to continue harping and beating a dead horse, then let it die. Dont carry it onto another thread :x
Maybe your new thread to pushdown should be" Why I hate MARS and it's members! "

As far as the consumer issue, it's on the consumer to do research, the age of the "town cryer" has long since passed. This is not the proper forum for vendor feedback. Thats why RC has designated a vendor feedback forum. But if he just didnt want to wrant and wanted some true dialogue regarding the topic, that is why I suggested changing the angle of approach.

-Justin

[kdblove_99]

Daniel,

I could have told you if you come on here and put down a LFS or online business, people will always come to the vendors side, Happens everytime and please never post a bad comment about a LFS on here, cause that is not what the people want, they want there free donations and everything to be happy and jolly.



I see that you are new and apologize for the way people have treated you on this thread. From the way it sounds you got a bad deal but i cant be certain either way.

Hope it all works out in the end

[Nu2SW]

wow I don't see how can say that. Its the same subject matter but with two different people on two different threads. You just further prove my point of how people want to control what people post.

Don't bash the fish store, they give us free things. Lol

The nerve

[kdblove_99]

I have to say. I dont totally agree with flat out bashing a LFS. But i think a thread of a bad experience at a LFS is ok. That just my opinion!

As stated before why not stay out of those so called bashing LFS threads? Ifyou dont like them, Dont you think the thread will die faster that way instead of adding comments that bump it back to the top?

[dots]

Though this is completly off topic from this thread and does not bear any conection to it, here is why I oppose them and am so vocal about it:

1. Nothing constructive EVER comes from them, they just go around and around and around and around. Nothing is EVER finalized, there is no clear "Best" nor "Worst". Its eactly what it is: gossip.

2. Its easy to criticize and cast stones from a far when this is a completly unfair arena to do so. If a LFS choose to respond to every comment or aligation, they would be attacked like a pack of wolves very much in the way this thread shows an example of.

3. 99.99% the complaints are petty, misinformed, fueled by biases, greed, and emotionaly laced. Though, yes there have been wrongs commited........has it been out of malice, or do we get blinded by our own point of view?

4. Unfortunatly, ego plays a large part of the problem. I suffer from it, you suffer from it, we all do. Its a fact of life that must be kept in check. Being able to "preach to the choir" under the quise of being the "little guy" lets this go unchecked.

5. Cheerleading: Basicly advertising for one who can't and smearing the competition, which could be greed based. Do I have favorites, Yes, but I try to give nuetral views here to let others build thier own opinions as I have. Its not a political campaign and we are not gathering votes.

6. We have all heard it: "Opinions are like bellybuttons, and everyone has one" This is a VAST hobby with many niches, and what you think makes a "good" store may be what I consider not.

7. These are your neighbors, not Walfish as I have said in the past, they are trying just as hard, if not harder to make a living. I would be livid if there was a public forum discussing my hard work. This is just plain poor behaviour to do and is embarassing.

8. If you truely care about the club, its standing in the reefing community and the local area, then its not a constructive nor efficient means to institute change. As I mentioned before, volunteer your time and make POSITIVE suggestions on how to solve a problem you see rather than just complain about one.

9. The REAL purpose of the donations and the raffles are to encourage participation and add some excitement to the club. It is a way for newer members to get that extra little something that could spark thier interest to the next level and keep them in the hobby.

10. Trolls, they love to stir it up........perfect breeding ground.

11. When you have nothing but "Rants and Raves" in which, to comment in, it takes away from the quality and its a "dark ages" of sort. Not only does this not drawn in new people..............it pushes people away.

At the beginning of the summer, I witnessed a surge in new participants during a time of quiet in term of "gossip", I feel that was a direct result of it. I felt we were making good progress together as a group and felt a good vibe. I want to make this a fun place where we can all learn and grow as aquarists together, not a downer full of BS, which is exacly why I jumped on this guy, only to realize I became what I seek to stop.

If you need a place to vent and complain about the "man" while spouting "public forum" and "bad experiences" then fine........

But did you ever notice how few "good experiences" threads there are or think about what it means in the greater scheme of things?

[dots]

Do what you want, I don't care anymore.

[Justin74]

In a parallel universe....your welcome Nu2SW Im glad I could help you prove your point, if you feel that is what I did

Without knowing who the comments are being reffered to, I'll gladly answer. Personally, I dont care if this thread stays at the top or not. If it does, Im sure there was a reason for it, even if it is merely just my response that promotes it. So be it! No skin off my back

I think the real nerve lies in someone spouting a bunch of retoric about clubs and LFS without any thought of reprocussions to the club itself seeing how those views are being spouted under the clubs forum. I can only speak for myself, but I dont think there's a person here who would care if these discussions ran rampant as long as they were in a desingated place for it such as vendor experience in this case, or maybe "Nu2SW's greater sacramento area free for all forum"?

But knowing what the MARS club is and what kind of philosophy as a club they subscribe to (which is clearly in black and white in there mission statement @ http://www.marineaquarist.org ) it should be made obvious to anyone that this is the wrong place for promoting alienation and antagonistical views.

Cheers!

-Justin

[tmz]

Personally, most of this thread is a waste of time. I do,however appreciate efforts at sharing both positive and negative comments about vendors in a factual way wihout editorial.

[kdblove_99]

I'm not here to publicly call out anyone in particular. Nor have you seen me bash a LFS. But when people do there are those that automatically come to the LFS side, which i dont agree with.

DO i think the donations are good, yes. and keeping a good repour with the LFS is a good thing.


But i think being honest with them is a good thing also. Like if you see sick fish etc. I think you as a customer should tell the workers about it. Does that mean publicly calling out a LFS, probably not.

I take part in the raffles every month and appreciate them and the people that get them.

BUt until MARS makes a rule against people bashing LFS then people are free to do so.

I wouldnt mind if we took a vote at the next meeting and voted against people bashing LFS. I dont even know if we can do that. but if we can it is something that needs to be brought up so there are no more of these threads.

These are just my own opinions

[ejocam]

Daniel, you and I both know I tried to rectify your concern. I really did not see the point in answering all your questions when the main concern to me was that you were unhappy. When a customer of mine is unhappy, I usually a refund their money back and that makes them happy again

The Sunset you got is true lineage. I got 3 directly from Steve himself, from Hugo (Snipersps) and another from Greg Caroll (GCaroll). If this is a fake like you claim, then all of theirs are too (which I highly doubt.)

I told you that I was experimenting with T-5's in one tank and it was pasteling a lot of corals (which I thought looked cool). Another thing that could have contributed to the flat growth is the Epoxy it was growing on. I extended the rock it was growing on with epoxy to create a saucer like surface so it would be easier to frag rather than it growing in a ball.

Daniel, my offer still stands. Email me if you want to work it out still as this will be my final post on this thread.

You will now be redirected to your regular scheduled program