QT new fishes? help please

khoivo1 · #1 11/14/2007, 09:45 AM

hi,,i was told setting up QT for my new fish with copper safe
but not sure if it s right thing to do
i was told by lfs that i have to put copper safe in qt tank before couple day adding fish so the copper will kill all stuff off from new fish,,specially itches since not all fish has white spot on there body,,so i would know by looking at the fish,,,
ok i need to know what are the people usually qt fishes??thanks

kau_cinta_ku · #2 11/14/2007, 10:12 AM

no need to treat the fish if it shows no signs of desiese. just set up your QT and watch the fish first then treat if needed.

Freed · #3 11/14/2007, 10:15 AM

Hyposalinity is much easier to do for ich(cryptocarion irritas) instead of copper. Ich will show up as tiny white dots the size of grains of salt. If you see ich on your fish you will want to do hypo for no less than 4-6 weeks.

capn_hylinur · #4 11/14/2007, 10:53 AM

again no need to treat unless visible signs occur in the next four weeks.
other advantages of qt tanks are for easy acclimatization of fish, and helping difficult eaters to eat, and providing a less stressful place from other fish.

Brandon M · #5 11/14/2007, 10:55 AM

I put all my new fish through a 4-5 week hyposalinity QT before they enter my display tank. I do this as a precaution, just in case they have ich.

meco65 · #6 11/14/2007, 11:02 AM

It is better to treat the fish with the hypo-treatment before adding them to the tank. IMO. The fish may have a mild case of ich that will not show up till the fish is stressed, why take the chance.

Mavrk · #7 11/14/2007, 11:02 AM

IMO, don't treat with copper unless you have to. I wouldn't even do hyposalinity unless you had to. Why stress them if you don't have to?

Just put them in the QT and observe for 4-6 weeks (6 is better). If they don't show signs of ich or other diseases you are good to go. If they have ich, then use hyposalinity as described in other posts.

If you do treat with copper, then that tank will no longer be safe for inverts.

meco65 · #8 11/14/2007, 11:10 AM

It is possible for a fish to have a very mild case of ich that dose not show up under normal conditions. Better to treat before you put them in the tank and have a breakout and have to do QT all over again. And hypo dose not stress the fish like copper will.

Freed · #9 11/14/2007, 11:17 AM

If you don't want to stress the fish out in QT then why do some people say ich will only show on a fish if it is "stressed out"? Any fish I have ever put thru hypo in QT has never been "stressed out". I always do hypo on fish in QT no matter what. That will ensure that even if you don't "see" the ich that may be present, it will die with hypo no matter the case and then you won't have to risk the effects of ich that make it to the main tank.

capn_hylinur · #10 11/14/2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mavrk
IMO, don't treat with copper unless you have to. I wouldn't even do hyposalinity unless you had to. Why stress them if you don't have to?

Just put them in the QT and observe for 4-6 weeks (6 is better). If they don't show signs of ich or other diseases you are good to go. If they have ich, then use hyposalinity as described in other posts.

If you do treat with copper, then that tank will no longer be safe for inverts.

I agree--if you don't use chemicals then you can put a piece or two of live rock from the main tank(already cylcled) for filtration purposes. the bacteria will adapt to hyposalinity and back.

I also agree that if the fish show no signs after 4-6 weeks then they are good to go.

some times delicate fish need a stress free half way house in a qt tank in order to recover from stresses of the LFS, being transported, being netted , and cleaned out before transport etc.

capn_hylinur · #11 11/14/2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by khoivo1
hi,,i was told setting up QT for my new fish with copper safe
but not sure if it s right thing to do
i was told by lfs that i have to put copper safe in qt tank before couple day adding fish so the copper will kill all stuff off from new fish,,specially itches since not all fish has white spot on there body,,so i would know by looking at the fish,,,
ok i need to know what are the people usually qt fishes??thanks

that reminds me as a pill happy prescribing doctor---chemical warfare should be used as a very last resort on a reef tank -IMHO
I wouldn't go back there.

khoivo1 · #12 11/14/2007, 11:44 AM

so look like hypo is the best way to go then,,,i don't have to take all live rock out ?? hypo treat will not kill all live from live rock?
if all fishes are eating fine should i just leave them alone or treat them anyway
and sign of itch come and go for like 2 month now,,,can't get rid of it.,,

ledford1 · #13 11/14/2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by khoivo1
so look like hypo is the best way to go then,,,i don't have to take all live rock out ?? hypo treat will not kill all live from live rock?
if all fishes are eating fine should i just leave them alone or treat them anyway
and sign of itch come and go for like 2 month now,,,can't get rid of it.,,

Use PVC fittings rather than LR in your QT. If a QTed fish has Ich, the LR would be a sanctuary for the Ich. The relative smoothness of PVC makes it more difficult for Ich to attach to it.

ledford1 · #14 11/14/2007, 12:01 PM

Some reading on QTs for you:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

capn_hylinur · #15 11/14/2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ledford1
Use PVC fittings rather than LR in your QT. If a QTed fish has Ich, the LR would be a sanctuary for the Ich. The relative smoothness of PVC makes it more difficult for Ich to attach to it.

I can certainly see your point if you took a piece of live rock from an ich infested tank and placed it directly into another but-----

ich can't live on live rock it needs fish---if you hypo salinate you kill the ich no matter where it is--and if you wait 4-6 weeks the rock can be used again--the bacteria will adapt with minimal cycling needed.
I have only had to use chemicals once---for that I used a separate bare tank with hbo filter.
I keep the other tank with live rock in it for hyposalination---the rock stays in there all the time.
this is also a handy way to go if you are just using the qt tank to intially isolate and observe, help with difficult feeders etc.

ledford1 · #16 11/14/2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
I can certainly see your point if you took a piece of live rock from an ich infested tank and placed it directly into another but-----

ich can't live on live rock it needs fish---if you hypo salinate you kill the ich no matter where it is--and if you wait 4-6 weeks the rock can be used again--the bacteria will adapt with minimal cycling needed.
I have only had to use chemicals once---for that I used a separate bare tank with hbo filter.
I keep the other tank with live rock in it for hyposalination---the rock stays in there all the time.
this is also a handy way to go if you are just using the qt tank to intially isolate and observe, help with difficult feeders etc.

The Ich doesn't live out it's entire life cycle on the fish. It'll drop off the fish and look for a surface to latch onto as a tomont. The LR will be a harbor for Ich. With PVC, the Ich has a harder time finding a place to attach and reproduce. It just helps take care of the Ich a bit easier, rather than giving Ich any advantage.

Sure, hypo can take care of Ich, plus not harm the LR, but what if you have other diseases. Hypo won't take care of everything and the need can arise for the use of medication that can be absorbed by the LR. So just using inert PVC is the safest bet.

Plus, for shelter, a single piece of PVC is a cave. You can't always do that with a single piece of LR. Throw in a few pieces of PVC, and you have lots of room for hiding, providing the fish with an additional sense of security.

IMO, PVC is the way to go.

ledford1 · #17 11/14/2007, 01:41 PM

and the double post...

Mavrk · #18 11/14/2007, 09:07 PM

Some fish get stressed out more easily than others. I see no reason to treat signs of things that do not exist. However, IF you are going to normally do hypo in your QT, I would at least avoid this for more delicate fish.

One reason I don't use live rock is that hypo (should the need arise) will kill any inverts that live in the rock. I prefer to use a sponge filter that sits in my sump for a couple weeks prior to use.

I am pretty sure that the life cycle of Ich is 6 weeks. So if you hypo for that long, it will not have survived on anything in the tank (including live rock if you use it).

For copper medications and the like, I would say to get a dedicated hospital tank.

Whatever you do, try to avoid treating your DT.

capn_hylinur · #19 11/14/2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ledford1
The Ich doesn't live out it's entire life cycle on the fish. It'll drop off the fish and look for a surface to latch onto as a tomont. The LR will be a harbor for Ich. With PVC, the Ich has a harder time finding a place to attach and reproduce. It just helps take care of the Ich a bit easier, rather than giving Ich any advantage.

true--but the tomonts need fish to continue the cycle. And I believe(not sure exactly) the tormonts need to find the fish in 8-14 days or they die.
If you qt the fish for 4-6 weeks and hyposalinate you kill all the ich regardless of what stage it is in and what it is on.

I believe people infect main tanks with ich by adding live rock etc that has not been quarantined for 4-6 weeks---inverts, corals included.
If you quarantine everything for 4-6 weeks before adding to the main tank, and the main tank has been fishless for the same period of time then you can consider the main tank ich free.
This is not my opinion but based on alot of experienced writers and reefers--Steven Pro included.

capn_hylinur · #20 11/14/2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mavrk
Some fish get stressed out more easily than others. I see no reason to treat signs of things that do not exist. However, IF you are going to normally do hypo in your QT, I would at least avoid this for more delicate fish.

One reason I don't use live rock is that hypo (should the need arise) will kill any inverts that live in the rock. I prefer to use a sponge filter that sits in my sump for a couple weeks prior to use.

very true--but if you dedicate a couple of pieces of live rock to your quarantine tank and only hyposalinate--you can seed the rock again with inverts by adding a cup or two of water from your refugium.
If you have to use chemicals then you remove the live rock and put it in your sump. The qt tank will have to be scrubbed after that anyways.

both ways have their advantages---I like the live rocks because my qt tank can act as an observation tank and or frag tank for longer periods of time when not hyposalinating without having to worry about ammonia/nitrates or dependant on changing a hob filter medium.

ledford1 · #21 11/14/2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
true--but the tomonts need fish to continue the cycle. And I believe(not sure exactly) the tormonts need to find the fish in 8-14 days or they die.
If you qt the fish for 4-6 weeks and hyposalinate you kill all the ich regardless of what stage it is in and what it is on.

I believe people infect main tanks with ich by adding live rock etc that has not been quarantined for 4-6 weeks---inverts, corals included.
If you quarantine everything for 4-6 weeks before adding to the main tank, and the main tank has been fishless for the same period of time then you can consider the main tank ich free.
This is not my opinion but based on alot of experienced writers and reefers--Steven Pro included.

Yes, yes. There is no disagreement on the life cycle of Ich. Hypo kills Ich, and it does so in 4-6 weeks. No debate there.

What I am saying is that I believe PVC is a better choice over LR in a QT. And Steven Pro also suggests PVC in the link I earlier provided: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Mavrk · #22 11/15/2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ledford1
Yes, yes. There is no disagreement on the life cycle of Ich. Hypo kills Ich, and it does so in 4-6 weeks. No debate there.

What I am saying is that I believe PVC is a better choice over LR in a QT. And Steven Pro also suggests PVC in the link I earlier provided: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

I use PVC as well. The only real reason I see not to use live rock is if there is a disease that can live in the live rock, then you have to kill the live rock. Not that big of an issue I suppose. Live rock does look nicer.

capn_hylinur · #23 11/15/2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mavrk
I use PVC as well. The only real reason I see not to use live rock is if there is a disease that can live in the live rock, then you have to kill the live rock. Not that big of an issue I suppose. Live rock does look nicer.

you're right if it was a disease other than ich-----I guess I have been lucky over the last two years to have only had to treat ich.