redo tank build!!!!!

[mitchellmoto]

Just thought you guysmight like to keep track of my new project.
I'm completely redoing my tank setup.
I'm just not happy with the setup and have been battleing problem since the tank crash a while back so it is time for change.
Here is my plan:

I'm going 85% sps this time. So I'll be needing major flow. Thats where these will come in handy:



I have 6 of these 4 or 5 will be on the tank and one for the return on the refuge. They are 2inch bulkheadsI haven't got it exactly planned yet but basicaly the existing overflows will be cut out (just plastic). and 3 or 4 new bulkheads will be added up top for the istal of a calfo style overflow. I'm leaning towards 3 for the overflow. The rest will be for closed loop.. The existing holes will be used a part of the return. I'm hoping to get rid of most of my powerheads in the tank for a less un-obstructed view. I'll just use them where absolutly needed.

To help with all this extra water flow I will be going barebottom with minimalistic look. I want minimalist and an asymetrial look. I don't want the typical rock wall or one tall island and two small. I'm thinking a large island on one side maybe a smaller rock in the middle and maybe somthing alittle odd shaped on the other. I'm still planning. But for a new center piece I have this beauty:


Same rock just top and bottom. it weights in at around 60lbs. it is siting on top of a 5 gal bucket if you need some comparison for size.

I'm cutting out the 15 and20k bulbs in favor for some XM 10k. They have a great par and I'm liking the more natural 10k look compared to the ultra blue others. If I need some blue I will add some t-5 atinics later.

Well while I was doing all this changing I figured a new stand and hood and might as well up grade my sump/ refuge so I got a used 125:



Half the brace is cracked and will need fixing before all is said and done. I will see once I install all the baffle if it needs replacement. all the baffles will give lots of strenght to the tank. water will come in to the first chamber which will house my two skimmers. one for dry skimming and the other for wet skimming. then to a shaded chamber not to big just a small section that is dark for filter feeders to grow sponges vemit worms(spelling?) whatever??
I plan to paint or just use some black plexi to keep it mostly dark.
I will them have a nother chamber for cheto only so to try and keep it comtaned and to provide a lot of flow since it need a lot to grow properly. then the middle section will house my remote deep sand beds in 5 gal buckets. I will need to cut the buckets down a bit I just want maybe 2 inches of water flowing over top of them. and the rest of the chamber will have my mangroves and calpera profilea (again spelling?) Lastly I will have a nice bubble trap with some eggcrate getup to lay bags of carbon or what other chems I may need down the road.

So far I have the bulkhead, tank and I'm waiting on the diamond glass bits. I've started the stand allready and hope to be moving everything over with in the next two weeks. I really waiting on the bits at this point but while I'm waiting I'm working on the stand. Bits will hopfully be in this week
Tank will be also relocated to the kitchen/ living room. This was the fisrt reason for all the changes I've had a lot of spills in the back room and we want to replace the carpet in all the bedrooms so it seem like a good time.
Here it the stand, I'm alittle further along than this but I'll post pics as I get a chance.



Stand could hold a car easy!! we wanted a cabinet floor to ceiling so the stand is 42 inches tall 24 inches for the tank and 24 inches for the hood with alittle space to spare for heat to rise out of. I like it when the stands come within a couple inches from the ceiling so you see the glow out the top but it doesn't wash out the room with tons of light

So come on guys and gals some opions, observations, feedback.
The guys a wetmedia loved my overflow ideas which was great incoruagement. I know once I start drilling there is no turning back.
So what do you see that you like or would change.
Not that I will nessacaraly use your idea but I always wonder how other people would do it.

[mitchellmoto]

I looked over my thread and noticed a lot of miss spellingsorry but come on it like 1:52 in the morning! How well do you spell that late

[benjabba]

Looks like a geat project! If you need any 10k bulbs let me know. I have 2 brand new 10k hqi bulbs I need to trade.

[ryan_paskadi]

looks good to me....love that rock

[ryan_paskadi]

hey how is the lizard?

[jmait769]

Look like fun Mitch!! That will be a nice sized sump for the 180! I wish I had drilled my tank. Will the bulkheads empty into a box on the back or straight down via pipes? Are you thinking Oceanmotion 4-ways for the closed loop? Well, keep us posted!!

Jay

[killingseed]

nice stand! keep us up to date for sure. 2 inch drain will be insane, what pump did you have in mind for the return?

[mitchellmoto]

Benjabba- thanks but I use single ended bulbs

Ryan_paskadi- yes the rock is sweet I got the rock and the 125 for some work I'm doing at a local store.
The lizard is doing great but I did give it to my freind. I just didn't have the time to build it a cage and give it enough care. But it's in good hands. My freind is a lizard and snake man!

Jmait769- The OM 4-ways might be in the picture but I haven't decided. They are a little expensive and I don't have much room because of the large Sump/refuge. After it is all put back together in the kitchen/ living room I will be building a tower that will go on the end of the tank. It won't fit in this location but once I move to a new house I will add the tower and have more room. Maybe an OM then. Tower Will bolt to the existing stand and will only have to redo plumbing between the unoins.
As far as the overflow no box on the back just straight down via pipes. Think durso stand pipes but the tee will be out side the tank and the elbow will be in a calfo overflow in the tank . Does that make sense?

killingseed- As far as pumps goes. I will have to caps for most of the holes because I will just be reusing my little giant pump and powerheads until the begining of the year. We have decided to wait till then so my plans won't interfer with the holiday gifts. But once the New Year arises I will be purchaseing Sequnce reeflo pumps.
I'm still trying to determine models because I an unsure of how much flow I will be able to push with the 2inch holes. But I'm leaning towards a dart for the sump return and misc. equipment and a dart for the closed loop.
This is one of the only areas I get a little confused and is why I'm more than likely overdoing it in bulkhead size.
I have 2 2inch bulkheads for a closed loop but realy I would only need one it is a 2inch suction port on those pumps and they say never to restrict the suction holes it doesn't say I need two 2inch holes. So does this mean I could use one pump per bulkhead on the closed loop?
I think the 3 2inch bulkheads for the overflow will be good. I don't want any gugling because the bulkheads are too small! But what is the max return I could use with 3x 2 inchers? Not that I want to push max but somewhere in the middle would be great.

Two darts will put my at 40x turnover before head pressure. That plus a powerhead or two for missed areas should be good. I will be using locline for return manifold. (Already Purchased)

Like I said this is the only area where I get a little tossed but thats why I like the reeflo pumps you can dial them back and you will get less flow and less wattage. One of their selling point states you can adjust the flow down to as little as 300gph and 75watts. So that gives me alot of play.

Sorry for the long post but keep the questions coming. Your question may help me see something I'm missing.

[Salty Sam]

I think you will need more than a Dart for the Closed loop but call Sequence tech line and they can recommend a pump.

Maybe Strayvoltage can chime in here.

[strayvoltage]

Good start Mitch. I think Sam is correct is saying you will need moe than the dart for a closed lop. If you plan it all out just right and use the loc-line fittings, you can make it so you shouldn't need any powerheads at all. Look at what you need for closed loop and how you want it to come out into the tank, how many outlets of whar size and all that type of info. Draw it all out, measure it all up. Figure out how many feet of lift and how many feet of run along the top of the tank, figure out all the fittings you will use. Then call the teck support, they are very willing to help you out and tell you what you need as far as pump size. They will figure out all the head loss as well as friction loss for you and tell you exactly what you should use. If you have two bulkheads you can use for closed loops, you can make two closed loops and you might get away with a dart pump for each. But for sure they can tell you.

IMO you are going to have way to much flow going through your sump if you use three two inch drains to feed it. I posted a sight here in a thread a while back that had flow rates for any given pipe size. You may want to check that out. Dont try to get your tank turn over through your sump. Use your closed loop/ loops for the majority of your turn over. Also keep in mind that to supply enough water to three two inch drains you are going to have to have a huge amount of overflow area. Just a quick cheak on the drain size calc here at RC tells me that a two inch drain with 35 linear inches of overflow will give you 2350 GPH for your overflow.

When the system is going your sump will be only like half full, or maybe a little bit more than half, lets use half full. If you have 62.5 gallons in your sump during operation then you will be doing 37.6 times turn over in your sump. IMO that is way to much turn over for your sump, and that is by using only one bulkhead at two inches. Also keep in mind that in order for the bulkhead to fow a given amount of water it has to have the correct amount of overflow feeding it.

When you make up the plans for the closed loop system you can make sure you have more than enough flow in the tank and not have to get it through your sump. Also keep in mind that your closed loop outlets dont have to just be at the top of the water, you can drop lines down in the back and put 45's or 90's on them and direct flow any way you want it to go. If you plan it all out right and think about your aquascape before hand you can pretty much hide most of the pipes you run down into the tank.

Sorry for the book on this post, these are just a few of my first quick thoughts that may or may not help you think this thing out.

Oh and I do know for sure the tech people will help you out, I have talked with them.

[strayvoltage]

One other thing, you shouldn't get any noise from your drains if you use the right type of stand pipes adjusted correctly.

By the way the stand frame really looks great. Very nice work.

[strayvoltage]

Here is the number if you don't already have it. So if you want to call about the pumps.
Toll Free Phone # 877-378-6798 M-F 8am-5pm (Mountain time)

[mitchellmoto]

Ya Stray I know I'm overdoing it with 3 2ich for the overflow but I did it on purpose. I know if water and air are both competing for the same hole it will be noisy but with all the extra space and planned stand pipe it should be realitivly quiet . It also leaves room for upgrades later if need be. Just because I will have basicaly 6 inches of bulkhead for the overflow dosen't mean it will always intake that much water. They will only intake however much water comes over the overflow wall. And It should be enough volume coming over the overflow becasue it will extend the lenght of the tank. I might have to play with the depth. Do you think 1 inch below the normal water surface will be enough or should I go two. Just keep in mind it will be 6 ft long as well.
Also I understand about to much flow thru the sump. But you are more refering to a regular tank. with bare bottom tanks it is a little different you want so much flow that nothing ever settle on the bottom. It will also be bare bottom in the sump. I will have all my sand in buckets with only around 2 inches of water flowing over the top of them.
This is also why I wanted to have one smaller pump for the sump return I can control the flow thru the sump easily I can just turn down the flow if need be. The retuns will more than likley come from the existing holes in the bottom so there won't be much head pressure luckily.
And I'm liking the Idea of one dart for each 2 inch closed loop bulkhead but they returns for the CL will be coming over the top of the tank so I only have so much room for the maniflod up there.
But that would put me at over 60% turnover.

One guy has 96% turn over on his barebottom tank. Wow no way he could ever go back to a sand bottom with that much flow.

I have been reading up as much as possible on barebottom tanks to make sure I'm ready. If I don't end up liking it I will just add sand later but I realy want to try it for awhile. I like that clean almost doctor office look! And I'm going for a more modern/ conteporary look for the cabinets. Hopefully!!

[strayvoltage]

The depth that the stand pipe is will have to be adjusted and played with to get the right amount of water in the sump and have them not deep enough to let the sump overflow when power is off. I still think even with bare bottom sump you still dont want your water to go that fast through it. You want more contact time with the algae and you also want to slow it down to allow the in sump skimmer to do its work. I really think you can have as much flow as you want in the tank but like I said , do it with the closed loop not through the sump.


I am going to have about 4200 to 4500 flow rate on the 210 just in the closed loop. I will have about 600gph going thruogh the 125 sump/fuge. Even at 600gph in the sump fuge that is almost 10 times turnover. But I will split the drain up and have much slower flow through the fuge part than the skimmer part. I will also be having a much bigger return section than the skimmer or fuge section. That is so you have longer to go before top off.

[jmait769]

Mitch, this may be an idea for you. Says it can flow 2000 gph (click on first pic). I would do this if I could!!





Jay

[mitchellmoto]

Wow thanks Jay.
That is F'n awsome. I'm thinking the larger dart overflow with just two 2inch bulkheads centered in the middle of my tank.
Should work great and look much more professoinal than me trying to build and overflow box with some glass.
Thanks alot.

I sent them some questions and as soon as they return them I will purchase one.

[demonsp]

Looking great. And mostly SPS will be cool. But i would go with the SB if i was you. You said you will have plenty of flow. The SB converts nitrate into harmless nitrogen and does it well in high flow. Just add 2 daimond gobys to keep the SB nice and clean. But wait a few months as they may starve in newly established tank. Plus it just looks more natural.

[mitchellmoto]

I'll pass on the SB. I'm sick of the sand everywhere. I will have the RDSB buckets in the sump for nitrate issues. You would be amazed what just one 5 gal bucket full of sand can do and I will have at least two. You don't need it in the main tank.
Also in the barebottom tanks the object is to have high flow to keep everthing suspended so there shouldn't be crap laying around rotting in my tank. And if there is any laying around you siphoin it out.
It is a completely different approach to a reef tank and you can't think of you standrad setups and practices. I've been researching alot about it and think I taking the right approach.
And if I don't like the look can add sand later but I can promise you it will be no more than an inch if I add later.It will also be so thiker grain. Not crushed coral but certainly not fine sand.
I'm planning on even elevating my rock so I can get the flow under it to reduce build up. I currently have a DSB and I'm just feed up with it. I try to up the flow and it kicks sand up everywhere it's on my rock and is constantly moving. I've had powerheads fall and release all that junk into the tank.

Like I said thanks but I'll pass on the sand for now

[mitchellmoto]

Hey guys I ordered the glassbo overflow.
I got the largest they had which can handel a dart pump with two 2 inch bulkheads.

And I know we were discussing the fact that I won't be running that much and someone said if you didn't match the flow to the bulkhead it would be noisy.

Well I thought I was correct in my assumption but I wanted to ask them to verify and I was right when I say you do have to match them but that is something you are usually only going to worry about if your trying to push the max allowable amount of water thru the bulkhead the more you reduce you fow thru the bulkhead the quieter it will be.

So if I push lets say 2000gph thru my box and bulkheads that will allow 3600gph it will be super quiet and this is part of the reason I wen tso large I will be able to upgrade later and still be under the quiet zone.

The reason is becasue most of the noise comes from the water and air fighting over the same space causeing a gurgle like a flushing toliet. But if there is plenty of room for both there there will be alot less noise.

Anyways I overnighted the box to me in hopes to speed up some progress. I'd like to be moving everything this weekend since I have a long one for the holidays.

[underWoasisjake]

Hey mitch i was gonna ask you how much would it be to build a stand some similiar to yours??? i have been thinking of just building a stand like that so it would maximize the amount of space underneath for a sump/fuge....... and also would it be possible for your help if you can?? let me know thanks

[mitchellmoto]

Yea I wouldn't mind as long as you of course supply all the wood.
I'm not sure exact cost mine was a little high because I always go overboard. Also I went high my stand is coming in at 42inches tall.
Do you have any idea how you want it and are you in a rush becasue I'm bogged down right now. I'm building Kitchen cabinet doors to replace my old out dated ones building my stand and helping Stelas Jungle with thier plumbing and I'm trying to finish my house so I can sale it.

All that being said I would like to help you out I enjoy wood working it is one of my many hobbies. And You might have to come to me because all my tools are here unless you have table and miter saws already.

At this point I can only make a few different styles of doors also but let me see if I can come up with a rough sketch and cost. I'm assuming You talking about your 120? If so Deminsions are
48.5 x 24.5 x 25.5. Please measure for me. Make sure to include plastic trim! Are you looking for a hood as well or are you going open top. What size sump are you looking to place inside? Going with a 4 foot tank will require alot less wood.
If you look how cheaply factory stands are you would be suprised. Mine has not even one 2x4 whole thing is made out of 3/4 plywood only. nothing more Also please tell me what kind of budget you are looking at because you could go all out with trim and it can get expensive quick or you can or realativley cheap with a good frame and 3/4 plywood skin.
I'm using MDF so I can get a smooth contemporary look. I will be painting flat black.

[underWoasisjake]

Yes of course i would supply the wood.....
ya i wouldnt want mine that high cuz the tank itself is high and i dont want to have to use a step ladder just to get into the tank lol

Well wenver you have a chance jus let me know so i can see if i have class or something planned.

Yes it would be for my 120... and im pretty sure those are the dimensions, but i will measure them again to make sure! Umm it depends a hood would be nice but for now i think just the stand would be my main concern since those cinder blocks i used were stacked the wrong way.

Also i would probably just want to add trim.... something simple not too much detail. So it would just be made of 3/4 plywood... i can go check how much it would be at Lowes. I need to take a trip there any ways to get the plumbing for my sump.

As far as the sump goes i would like to fit a 40g breeder under there if possible. If not that will be ok maybe a 30 gallon breeder would work. Then also have some room on the side of the sump to add a kalk stirrer.

Would this be ok??

[mitchellmoto]

Don't waist your time looking at prices. Just figure @30 bucks per sheet of plywood. Plywood is like gas it changes daily by as much as a couple dollars. Better to just plan high. I haven't seen it over 30 buck so that would be your high side then the 2x4 or 4x4's cost depending on quality..

You need 2 sheet sof plywood to be safe. Go 4x4 corner posts with the rest of the frame in 2x4.

36inch tall stand would require 12 ft of 4x4 and @ 32 ft of 2x4's alway get extra. SO lets say 60 bucks for 2x4 and 4x4 and 60 bucks for plywood. Then you will need box of screws and whatever yo want to seal and paint it with. Also if you go 2 doors then of course 4 hinges. SO maybe $150 roughly. I'm sure ti could be done a little cheaper but I always try to think high in case I forget something. It is also worth while to have HD or lowes cut the lenghts for you. Usually charge like a quarter per cut. Realy not expensive and well worth to time and hassle that you save.

Please don't hold me to these prices I'm going off memory I'm just trying to give you a ball park figure.
MDF for a skin would be cheaper if you don't want to stain. But you have to make sur eto use a quality sealer. MDF swells if it gets wet so it must be sealed and painted very well to prevent this. I will be using kilz sealer, paint and polyurethane So I should be safe?
I believe a 40 breeder would fit with no problem. I think they are only 36 inches long so it would fit with room to spare.

For simple trim I can make it with my router bevel edges roundovers simple things. I also have the bits to make raised panel doors. or you can do regular flat panel doors. Cost about the same. On my tank I'm going with the look similar to Tank of the month for July 2007. He used MDF on his as well.

Well we will talk later.
Mitch Out

[mitchellmoto]

Oh and for the few that might be following my progress I've got the skin on and filled with putty. Will sand and paint very soon so I post pic soon as well. Everyone loves pics
Later

[underWoasisjake]

ok great now at least i know what im looking at....
ya that would be perfect if i had extra room and the 40 breeder would fit under in the stand!
Im not familiar with the sealing and painting process for wood....
i will look into that more.
Sent you PM mitch....
Thanks