Dwarf angels

[imrandy85]

I'm thinking about starting a 55 gallon tank that would include a flame angel in the stocking. As this would be my first saltwater tank I'd like to start as FOWLR and then upgrade to a reef later on. I'm concerned about the flame angel nipping at corals when I upgrade to a reef, are there any dwarf angels that don't go after corals?

[Radioheadx14]

With all dwarf angels, it depends on the individual. Some people have had problems while others have never had a problem. I want to say they are mostly reef safe, but not to be trusted. They may have a nip every now and then. I have a potteri angel and it doesnt mess with my protopalys or any other inverts... but then again, i have only had it a little over a week.

I wouldn't exclude them from a reef tank. Maybe someone with more experience can give you advice on keeping them nipping at corals.

[reef_doug]

Most dwarfs will pick, just a matter of time. The Bellus angel probably has the least chance of picking.

It's usually not if, but when. Also you would have a better chance adding an angel after the corals instead of before. The angels will get used to you bringing them food, adding corals might be viewed as the same thing to them.

Flame Angels are great, a good fish but be prepared to take him out when SPS or clams come in. He should be ok with Frogspawn, hammers, and soft corals though.

[snorvich]

Genicanthus are reef safe (e.g. Bellus) but are a bit largish for smaller tanks. Flame angels can be good or problematical as Radioheadx14 states. I have two C. multicolor which seem to be reef safe but one never knows for sure . . .

[kysard1]

Originally posted by reef_doug
Most dwarfs will pick, just a matter of time. The Bellus angel probably has the least chance of picking.

It's usually not if, but when. .

Just not true, there are many accounts of no picking with years of inhabiting a reef tank. I had a Cherub that never gave problems

[DamnPepShrimp]

I agree, my brother has a cherub and I have a pair, no pickings. Also, I would think angels are more then likely to pick at LPS rather then SPS. There are many large angels in SPS reefs, (regal, majestic, bleuface, emperor, goldflake, chryurus just to name a few). Most LPS corals are eaten by angels, but the pygmy's are hit or miss, not eventually will.

[miguel242]

I was unaware that flames will eventually nip. I guess I should start observing more often.

[imrandy85]

I really like the look of angels and tangs. It seems tangs need a larger tank and there's a chance that any angel could possibly pose a problem. Is there any fish that looks like an angel or tang that would work in this tank?

[jda]

All of you that say that your dwards don't do any damage should take them out of the tank for 2-3 months and then see. I always thought that my flame and argi were good specimins, but after they left, all of the coral expanded more and grew faster. It turns out that they did damage, just not enough...

It is certianly possible that they don't pick, but don't assume that just beacuse your coral looks OK that the coral could not look better if the fish was not in the tank.

[DamnPepShrimp]

Maybe your angels did, doesn't mean every other angel will as well. Not all fish are the same. If you don't see the angels picking and coral health is good, I don't see a problem. But I do see where your coming from, you'll just have to keep a close eye on your angels.

[Sheol]

Currently, the most un-safe reef fish in my tank is my ocellaris clown. My chreub (C. argi ) does not touch corals. The clown will knock over or attempt to kill any coral frag she deems too close to her "Anemone" (Its really a big 'shroom)
All fish are INDIVIDUAL. Period.

Matthew

[imrandy85]

ok, lets assume the angel doesn't work out and I want to replace it with something similar. What kind of fish would that be?

[CRUZING2000]

I HAVE A CHERUB AND HAD ANOTHER I KILLED WHEN I UPGRADED MY THANK WITH A BIG ROCK POOR THING BUT THEY NEVER PICKED ON ANYTHING SPS DOMINATION AND 3 CLAMS IN 55 GALLION TANK I JUST GOT THEM REALLY SMALL WHEN I GOT THEM ITS BETTER TO START OFF WITH SMALL ONES I THINK

[rcerulli]

i have a eibli and imperator angels in my tank, no coral picking. It really depends on the individual and also the age aquired.

[xravenzx]

I have a flame angel who hasn't picked on any of my corals.

[Sheol]

One thing that helps curb picking is actually feeding your angels when they are in a reeftank. I believe many people underfeed trying to preserve water quality. Angels need 2-3 feedings a day at the VERY LEAST..
Also, bigger tanks help, as well as well stocked etc.

Matthew

[kysard1]

I read on RC that best reef safe pygmies are juvenile captive bred. So I went with a small captive bred Cherub and it has been no problem with nipping

[Sheol]

I always consider what are the worst nippers:

In Centropyge they are C. flavissmus (Lemonpeel), C. bicolor, C. heraldi, & C. ticibien (Keyhole).

Safest are C. argi (Cherubs) & its relatives ( Flamebacks & Resplendents) also C. fisheri & C. flavicadauta (whitetail).
*****
Everyone else is 50/50

Matthew

[black_majik]

Depends on feeding really. Some angels have a could care less attitude about what they eat ( lemonpeel) and just pick. Some are hesitant ( coral beauties, flame) Mainly the rule of thumb is you have a better chance on the angel in after the corals go in and also they need a good amount of food to be scattered around in the rock work to not care about corals.

[flyguy7150]

couple of my corals where happier without my flame in the tank, others still the way they were. He seems to stop when you yell at him

[thor32766]

its hit or miss plain and simple.

[roscoe253]

I know quite a bit of people that keeps dwarf/large angels in a reef tank with great success. I also have a friend that has a 10'' Clown trigger in his reef for the past 2yrs with no major incident. The key to keep these fish that is not reef safe in a reef tank is being able to keep them well fed. I think when they start picking on things is when they are hungry and in search of food that is when you see them most active at picking on the rocks and corals ect.

[reef_doug]

I had to remove a Coral Beauty because it started picking on SPS.

I have a new Majestic Angel and he hasn't picked on anything (yet).

Many people believe large angels are a bit safer in reefs 150g+, your mileage may vary.

[Sheol]

True. Also helps to have some hair algae growing in & around the LR. For most Centropyge, this & diatoms is what they naturally eat. They are more hungry in very clean, seldom fed tanks.

Matthew