Canister filter really that bad?

[Kryptikhan]

If yer hardcore...is it sump ftw? or can a canister filter survive in the world of -best of breed- filtration.

thx

[T Man]

Canister filters as the sole filtration don't even compare to a sump or refugium in the reefkeeping hobby............just check out the TOTM's here at RC, there is no question about what the "pros" use. Welcome to Reef Central!!!T

[nlmotoring]

If you are doing a FOWLR you can use a canister for a little while but sump is much better. I ran a XP3 filter for about a year and then gave up after having so many problems with keeping the water parameters in check.

[ACBlinky]

Nothing wrong with using a canister per se, just be careful what you put in it. Bio media and sponges, floss, anything that traps detritus and breaks it down into NO3 by providing a home for bacteria will all cause issues. Even carbon left for a while can be a problem as bacteria will colonize it just like any other media.

I have a canister on my (always running, fully cycled) QT, which houses a little bit of bio media because there's no LR in the tank. If I was using it on my reef, I'd eliminate the media all together and just use it for running carbon or other chemical media when needed. When it's not housing carbon etc., I'd just run it empty as a source of additional water movement - a spraybar attachment behind the rockwork is a great way to eliminate dead spots, for example.

A sump/refugium is a much better alternative, but if you've got a sumpless tank and want to make use of a canister that's gathering dust, I say go for it - just think of it as a large powerhead that lives under the tank

[ArgonDreams]

Thank you ACblinky for being one of the first people I see here that gives a level response on canisters. As a canister user I appreciate you giving both sides of that story.

[burris]

A sump is just a place to put things, including canister filters.

A canister filter just forces water through media, look at TOTMs, theres plenty of that going on.

So basically it depends on what you put in the filter and how often you change it. Canister filters are useful in reef tanks for running carbon and GFO. What you don't want is for the filter to trap detritus then leave it in there for a long time to break down and degrade your water quality.

The other issue is canisters, fluidized beds, and trickle filters have huge nitrifying surface area but no denitrifying zones. This allows you to have a heavy bioload in your tank, greatly outstripping the denitrifying capabilities of your rock and sand. You can get into a situation where nitrate builds up. Lots of healthy fish but you'll have troubles with corals.

So theres nothing wrong with a canister filter per se, it depends on how you use it and how you run your tank. The thing is that you don't want it to be your main biological filter component. You also don't want to rely on it for particulate filtering unless youre religious about replacing/cleaning media.

[God of thunder]

My cannister works just fine if i clean it properly every 2 weeks

[BucNtears]

I run cabon in my canister 24/7.No problems and changed every 2 weeks

[Kryptikhan]

Originally posted by burris
A sump is just a place to put things, including canister filters.

A canister filter just forces water through media, look at TOTMs, theres plenty of that going on.

So basically it depends on what you put in the filter and how often you change it. Canister filters are useful in reef tanks for running carbon and GFO. What you don't want is for the filter to trap detritus then leave it in there for a long time to break down and degrade your water quality.

The other issue is canisters, fluidized beds, and trickle filters have huge nitrifying surface area but no denitrifying zones. This allows you to have a heavy bioload in your tank, greatly outstripping the denitrifying capabilities of your rock and sand. You can get into a situation where nitrate builds up. Lots of healthy fish but you'll have troubles with corals.

So theres nothing wrong with a canister filter per se, it depends on how you use it and how you run your tank. The thing is that you don't want it to be your main biological filter component. You also don't want to rely on it for particulate filtering unless youre religious about replacing/cleaning media.

What exactly do u have in your sump? live rock? sand? skimmer and? of course pump on outside etc.....but what exactly is in everyone's sump. The basics........thx

[ACBlinky]

My sump houses the Mag 9.5 return pump, a large clump of Chaetomorpha macroalgae, and a filter sock. No sand, no rock. Water comes from the overflow (where the HOB skimmer is) into a filter sock, then flows in two directions: half goes over & under & back over three baffles, through the chaeto and into the return chamber, and the other half goes through another refugium section (empty ATM) and back to the return chamber. Basically I have two separate 'fuges - one is an area reserved for only chaeto, and the other houses corals or inverts that need a place to recuperate (I like to buy ailing corals and bring them back, it's my favourite part of the hobby).

[papagimp]

I've got a canister, use it priimarily as a means to put water into my refugium, but it's there if i need it for anything else. I think the big "downside" to canisters is simply the maintence on them. i've seen too many great looking reef tanks utilizing canisters, it just takes the extra work to keep em clean. And i'll also add that i've never seen one used as the primary filtration for any reef tank as of yet, but I'm sure it's been done, how well it worked, I could only speculate.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by Kryptikhan
What exactly do u have in your sump? live rock? sand? skimmer and? of course pump on outside etc.....but what exactly is in everyone's sump. The basics........thx

you might be interested in this thread:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1207565

[bolton reefer 1]

a freind of mine who got me interedred in marines kept a five foot reef useing only 2 cannister filters and weekly water changes for over seven years all fish and corals were healthy when he broke it down and sold part of it to me

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by T Man
Canister filters as the sole filtration don't even compare to a sump or refugium in the reefkeeping hobby............just check out the TOTM's here at RC, there is no question about what the "pros" use. Welcome to Reef Central!!!T

huh-- I had to learn what bump and trolling meant since I joined---now it's TOTM's

[steri]

sumps are better then canisters, no doubt, but I run 2 canisters with zero problems. I think you have to be careful with them, but canisters can work fine for SW tanks, if you're willing to do the maintenece.

For mine I run no sponges, padding, ect. I do run carbon in one of mine (the filstar). In both filter's media containers I have Live Rock and Live rock Rubble. I have TONS of pods in my canisters now as a result.

Here's the positives:
1) Home for pods (if you run them with LR)
2) adds great circulation to the tank
3) gives you a place to effectively run carbon

Here's the negatives:
1) Have to clean regularly (I clean mine every 2 weeks or the flow starts to slow down. I've never had nitrate issues, but I do worry about them).
2) Cleaning the canitsers regularly becomes a bit of a pain in addition to other maintenece you have to do for a SW tank.
3) If you use a lot of padding, sponges, ect, you will end up with a Nitrate/Ammonia factory in your tank that can cause a lot of damage to reefs.
4) No lights on canister filters, so no place to keep or grow macro algae.

So, yes, canisters aren't that bad. You can really make them work quite well, if you're willing to do the work, but sumps and refugiums are much better and easier to use IMO. This is comign from the perspective of someone who runs 2 canisters on his 75 gallon with success. I like them, and they work quite well for me, but if I started over, I would have done a sump. I hope that helps you out some.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by steri
sumps are better then canisters, no doubt, but I run 2 canisters with zero problems. I think you have to be careful with them, but canisters can work fine for SW tanks, if you're willing to do the maintenece.

For mine I run no sponges, padding, ect. I do run carbon in one of mine (the filstar). In both filter's media containers I have Live Rock and Live rock Rubble. I have TONS of pods in my canisters now as a result.

Here's the positives:
1) Home for pods (if you run them with LR)
2) adds great circulation to the tank
3) gives you a place to effectively run carbon

Here's the negatives:
1) Have to clean regularly (I clean mine every 2 weeks or the flow starts to slow down. I've never had nitrate issues, but I do worry about them).
2) Cleaning the canitsers regularly becomes a bit of a pain in addition to other maintenece you have to do for a SW tank.
3) If you use a lot of padding, sponges, ect, you will end up with a Nitrate/Ammonia factory in your tank that can cause a lot of damage to reefs.
4) No lights on canister filters, so no place to keep or grow macro algae.

So, yes, canisters aren't that bad. You can really make them work quite well, if you're willing to do the work, but sumps and refugiums are much better and easier to use IMO. This is comign from the perspective of someone who runs 2 canisters on his 75 gallon with success. I like them, and they work quite well for me, but if I started over, I would have done a sump. I hope that helps you out some.

except for a place to run carbon---would you not be better of with a refugium?

[Wimby]

i run a cannister on a 45gl tank with just live rock and carbon and a pad clean it every other week no problems what so ever have the spraybar behind the rocks i also have a hob filter that will soon be removed when my refugium comes and my skimmer 24/7 all is fine with my tank almost 5 months old i also have the same set up on a 20gl thats over a year old also all are well inside my little underwater world

[steri]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
except for a place to run carbon---would you not be better of with a refugium?

I don't know. Maybe. Like I said, if I could start all over, I personally l would have done things a little differently. I did add a HOB refugium to my tank so that I had a place to grow macro, but even that I modded from an old Penguin filter.

At the time I just used what I had, and made the best of it. It has worked for me the way I set it up. I like my flow. I like all the pods in my canisters with some LR in there, but the maintenence gets old, sure. In heinsight, having a 10 gallon sump/refugium would have been a better thought sure, but I knew nothing about plumbing, drilling tanks, sectioning off sumps, and overflows at the time, so I made the best of what I had and what I knew about at the time.

Like I said, it's worked for me, and i think it can easily work for others, but if given one choice or the other, I think sumps and refugiums are better then what I got. Does that make sense.

[ArgonDreams]

I have run a canister for the entire life of my tanks. It gives me a nice versatility that is unique. I also have a sump+Refugium and use them with each other. I don't think of them as direct competitors. My canister can be used to polish water by adding pads for a short period of time, I use it for a large chemical media powerhead. It also powers my phosban reactor taking the place of several devices as one. When I do my weekly water changes that's the final section it to open the canister, spray out the canister and check the media etc. I rarely spend more then 5-10 mins on it.

However I don't consider it as powerful as a refugium and since they don't really do the same thing I don't see why they are contrasted so much. Canisters don't have the volume of water a sump has, it doesn't remove nitrate or phosphate like a refugium. The Refugium and sump aren't as efficient with water polishing and chemical media. I personally don't think either should replace each other.

[capn_hylinur]

I hope my post was not interpereted negatively. The bottom line is your equipment/setup is as good as it works for you.

I prefer the phosban reactors or canisters because they seem to have little draw backs and little maintenance.

[Dr Begalke]

they are great for FOWLR...

not so much for reefs... but hey, there's all kinds of methods, maybe you can make it work.

[Kryptikhan]

ive decided to go eshopps cheap 150 buck sump..comes with overflow thing that hangs on tank. i've decided not to go with a reef rdy or drilled tank for my own odd personal reasons. i just need to get a pump and return flow tubing connector back to tank....im gonna remove the sock and add liverock....keep an external skimmer so i have more room for a refuge..and take it from therel this is done thru mnth of lfs research...RC research and pricig research and my own person pref on maint and space issues. any thoughts on this? I just feel sump is way to go....however im not making my own sump and just going with a premade box with 3 levels....im just not a good plumber lol.....



i'm gonna rock either a 75g or a 72 bow for the salt. for some odd reason i like the bow even tho i know 18 inches is in the 75.

[capn_hylinur]

that's great--did you have a look at the thread I suggested above?

[Kryptikhan]

yes...read the whole thing lol thanks man. im gonna go with two external overlfow can too...just for the hell of it

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
huh-- I had to learn what bump and trolling meant since I joined---now it's TOTM's

Apparantly, this post has bothered some people. I wrote it sincerely. Until I joined RC I honestly thought a troll was someone that lived under a bridge or was named Shrek and I thought bump meant "bum post" until I was corrected.

I really don't know what TOTM's means and simply wanted a definition.
So I worst it was a poor use of words in order to be lighthearted.

I really try to make my posts informative and lighthearted and have never posted anything with the intent to be derrogatory or cynical.
I value my email friends on Reef Central so I apologize if I offended any one
Sincerely
Scott