Flow issues. . (any hydrologists out there)

Phxkeller · #1 08/14/2007, 10:00 AM

Ok so I have 2 1.5" Drains from seperate overflows that meet From the left side in a 3 way wye 1.5" to a 2" drain towards the left out below in the sump

I am using a dolphin Amp Master MDA 5600/4700 pump with 1.5" return line. with about 6' head pressure should be around 55gpm or 3300gph

Fully opened its filling the tank faster than it can drain into the sump.. I thought from my research that 1.5" drain can take a max flow (gravity fed) of 3600gph each. and a 2" can do about 6000gph.

So do I need to change my manifold style to handel more flow from the 1.5" drains So I can get the flow I want in the 3 1" return lines and run the pump at max otherwise flow is weak when turned back???

Thanks in advance for the help!!!

Philwd · #2 08/14/2007, 10:03 AM

Using the calculator on the home page I get you need a 2.5" drain for 3600 gph.

24gnanonewbie · #3 08/14/2007, 10:06 AM

Do you have stockman or durso standpipes in the overflows?

Phxkeller · #4 08/14/2007, 10:12 AM

Philwd: Thanks for the reminder .. I did a web search must have read the info wrong .. I see a 3.5" drain would be more appropriate according to the calculator ..that's huge!

nano: No I am attempting to use this manifold/combo as a reverse modified durso in the sump .. But I may add them in the overflows as well.. If noise is an issue..

Phxkeller · #5 08/14/2007, 10:18 AM

Using the calculator for 7200gph totaling both 1.5" drains at a max would mean I need a 3.5" drain line.. Geezz..

The other chart I was reading says a 2.5" drain line can handle about 9000gph?? don't know where the difference is coming from..

SWSaltwater · #6 08/14/2007, 11:06 AM

I would say it's the linear lenth of the overflows, how many teeth and how long are they, bottleneck might be there and not the drain. They look a bit small from the other thread I saw. You can perhaps widen the teeth with a dremmel if it's the issue. Who made the tank?.

Phxkeller · #7 08/14/2007, 11:46 AM

This is a lee-mar tank.. it was new for fishaholic911s tank from Tucson less than 1 year prior to me getting it. He had 2 1.5 " reverse durso pipes setup on it (maybe you did the original plumbing work ??)

I am trying to save some sump space by running both together to one large drain near the skimmer area of the sump.

Phxkeller · #8 08/14/2007, 01:50 PM

The overflow teeth are 1 3/8" each there are 6 on the sides and 9 in the front.

Are they to small ?? how do you determin size?

am3gross · #9 08/14/2007, 02:11 PM

i always thought that you did not want a bunch of flow coming from the return.... i was always told that is why you have powerheads, closed loops and so on. if you have a bunch of flow going back in the tank then you are having a bunch of flow threw the sump. once again i was told that you want some what of a slow flow threw the sump so you give your skimmer and other biological filtration a chance to work. i am not saying that you want a slow trickle from the return but get as close to the max as you can. these are just opioions and thought that i would share

oct2274 · #10 08/14/2007, 02:20 PM

normally you only want 3-5x your tanks volume through your sump. while it won't really harm anything having more, it will limit the sumps ability to allow things to settle out and its efficiency to remove nutrients might be hindered. Some people also match their skimmers pump to the return flow as well. You should not be trying to get your flow for your tank from your return pump. I would use the ampmaster for a closed loop and get a smaller return pump.

Phxkeller · #11 08/14/2007, 02:31 PM

am3gross/oct2274: Thanks for the reminder I did let the correct flow of a sump slip when I focused on wanting the most flow from my 1' OM nozzles I spent so much on. I do need to consider getting only 3-5x overturn in the sump.

The skimmer will flow off a T inline with the drain for its flow and the chiller as well.

I'm out on all the extra equipment, powerheads, pumps involved with some tanks.. Appearance/sound for one and maintenance/cost of so much more equipt. I'm attempting to streamline the setup with 1 CL pump and 1 return pump. Guess I go back to the drawing board..

Maybe my 1st step should be changing the OM nozzles to 3/4" Lock line for the returns... see where the pressure/Flow gets me then

THANKS FOR THE INPUT!!

oct2274 · #12 08/14/2007, 02:38 PM

no problem. You should be able to get away with one pump for CL and one for return no problems. I have an oceansmotion 4 way that is powered by a dart for my closed loop and just a eheim 1260 for my return. You probably could plumb the skimmer off the return pump, but consistancy might not be optimal. If you need any help with plumbing, let me know. I'd be more than happy to help in any way i can. One thing you really want to make sure you do when plumbing is use true union ball valves as much as possible so you can actually remove pumps, sumps, refugiums, etc without draining your tank. I can remove all my plumbing without draining my tank basically.

Phxkeller · #13 08/14/2007, 02:46 PM

I appreciate the info .. I am going to reconsider not using the drains for the skimmer and chiller and probably use the return line since I do have so much extra pressure to use and gate each one down on its own valve..

I would have to consider power loss and what that could do about over flowing (need an inline check valve) .. but its a thought.

oct2274 · #14 08/14/2007, 02:49 PM

ya, i considered power loss when scott who used to own atr built my sump. when i lose power my sump fills to about 1 inch of the top of the sump so i do not need a check valve.

purebullet417 · #15 08/15/2007, 12:51 AM

why not just turn down your return pump with a ball valve?

Phxkeller · #16 08/15/2007, 04:36 PM

I would like to get as full a flow from the 1" returns to keep circulation high without using any extra in tank powerheads. Just aesthetics reasons and less wire/plugs/power to deal with.

Just when you think you have it figured out .. something pops up its head and says hi pay attention to me!

oct2274 · #17 08/15/2007, 05:08 PM

you won't be able to get enough flow from just the return pump, nor would you want to. You will have to use a closed loop, or like you said powerheads for additional flow.

Phxkeller · #18 08/15/2007, 06:17 PM

OK its over

BUT THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELPFUL INPUT!!!!

My inexperience (or forgetfulness) has surfaced well this time (always learning as I say with everything) But lessons learned!!

I am in need of a mind set change going from a 90G with no CL and powerheads to a 300G with everything I wanted.. soooo

Thanks to a phone conversations with paul from AZSEABOTTOM I am going to put the dart on the return side and try the Dolphin pump on the CL (or get another pump if needed) to fix flow of both the return (slowing it down) and increase CL flow with the amp master.

BEST LESSON: Depending on CL for max flow and change the returns from the sump from 1" returns to 3/4" loc line.

I believe this will kill both issues (I HOPE)..

BACK TO THE DESIGN BOARD

Just when I was hoping to be close to adding saltwater ..

paljets · #19 08/15/2007, 09:13 PM

Glad I was able to help

Either way, post some pics of things running once you get it switched out.. I'd love to see the water moving off that Closed loop

--paul