Least Finicky Skimmers

[pjf]

What skimmer or type of skimmer are the least “finicky?” In other words, it does not require constant adjustment as water chemistry changes and recovers quickly after feedings. Please explain what makes your skimmer less finicky if you can.

I am having problems dialing-in a drain tube assembly that replaced my collection cup. The assembly fits in an airtight fashion and has greatly increased the power of my skimmer. Unfortunately, the difference between no foam and overflowing the collection jar is only a quarter-turn of the air adjustment screw. The skimmer is now very sensitive to salinity changes caused by evaporation and to chemistry changes caused by feeding. One moment I may have no skim and after adding a cup of salt, my collection jar may be full within an hour.

What kind of skimmer can do what UCanDoIt describes below?

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
I am very biased towards ***** skimmers as they are much more easier to fine tune and control... also not subject to sump waterlevel changes or chemical changes like putting your hand in the sump or feeding or dosing your tank... they just keep skimming and kick right back after any chemical changes.

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
when i use to own **** skimmers and this is true about the new **** skimmers as well, if i put my hand in the sump to adjust the waterlevel within the skimmer to adjust the bubble breaking level, if my hand touches the sump water (hard to avoid), the skimmer foam head breaks down and may take awhile to get started again, so fine adjustments is a PITA sometimes. when you feed certain foods, dose certain additives, put your arm in the tank to move things around, same thing happens and it could be hours before the skimmer starts up again. on high end ****, there's no affect when you pump your hand into the sump, also when i dose from within the sump, it doesn't affect my skimmer much either as it may slow down just a little bit and kick right up again and start skimming, so it is not overly sensitive to chemical changes within the water. i hope this makes sense.

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
I wish I could explain why, but I cannot. I can just tell you what happen and don't have a clue why it happens. On 2 different side by side test and evaluation that Ed did, one that he setup and the other I setup in his office: (1) LifeReef SVS3-24 vs Deltec APF600 on 180g medium bioload FOWLR and (2) ATi BM150 vs Deltec AFP600 on 100g heavy feeding REEF... I personally saw after feeding frozen mysis, frozen cyclopeze, and certain frozen formula cubes, all skimmers lost it's foam head. Within an hour, the APF600 was up and running again, LifeReef took over 2 hours and BM150 took over 4 hours.

[Rwinfrey]

H&S www.finsreef.com

[pjf]

Which H&S skimmers are less finicky?
What feature makes them more stable?

[klam114]

Those posts are referring to recirculating needlewheel skimmers, also know as external skimmers. They can be install in the sump or outside the sump because they are sealed where they will not leak. I have no idea why the are less sensitive to any changes that in sump only non-recirculating skimmers, and my experience is exactly as ucan describes.

I owned a ATi Bubblemaster 200 (in sump only non-recirculating) skimmer and it is very sensitive and if the sump water level is not constant, you will be forever adjusting this skimmer. But if you have the sump waterlevel constant like the way I had set mine with a partition for the skimmer, the waterlevel was constant and the skimmer was a set it and forget it type of skimmer once it's past the break-in period.

I also owned a H&S A110 for my other tank and it is insensitive to almost anything. I got it skimming right away, hardly any break in period and no fussing or adjustments.

[klam114]

These are the H&S recirculating skimmers:
http://www.finsreef.com/home.php?cat=254

If you decide to buy a H&S skimmer, here's the authorized dealer listing of dealers who may have them in stock:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=902403

[klam114]

Originally posted by pjf
Thanks, VerySharky.

I would be interested in ordering a A150-F2001 with a shorter height.

(1) Do you know what the height of the exhaust port would be after the modification? This would determine the height of the sump tank.

(2) To use automobile terms, would this be a "factory option" or a "dealer option"? In other words, who performs the custom work?

I apologize for being a PITA but given my income, this is not "chump change."

Found your old post asking about H&S skimmer last month.
(1) Assuming that 1.5" is shorten body and 1/2" shorten on the skimmer cup, the exhaust will be lowered by 1.5". I think that I read in one of the A150 posts that the exhaust is 17", so the exhaust maybe around 15.5" height.

(2) These are factory option at the request of the dealers. So, the dealers have to place a custom special order for shorter models and there's a $50 custom fee that H&S charges. The only dealer I am aware of that I know for sure carries in stock shorter versions of several of the H&S external skimmers is where VerySharky purchaed hers from in the other thread that you posted the above question. HTH

[kodyboy]

Tunze

[pjf]

Originally posted by klam114
But if you have the sump waterlevel constant like the way I had set mine with a partition for the skimmer, the waterlevel was constant and the skimmer was a set it and forget it type of skimmer once it's past the break-in period.

A baffle keeps my sump water level constant and I still have issues with skimmer sensitivity. Albeit, the flow is fast and turbulent.

With the sump water level kept constant, are in-sump ATi skimmers just as stable as recirculating skimmers?

Are there other secrets to a less finicky skimmer besides a constant sump water level?

Perhaps certain skimmer types (Venturi, needle-wheel, external, internal, recirculating, etc.) are inherently more stable?

[DarG]

I use a Bermuda Aquatics 3C. Plumbed externally. I haven't had to touch adjustments after break in. Well, actually I still need to dial it in a little bit for a slightly drier skimmate but I haven't touched it since break in. It skims when the neck is clean, skims when it is dirty between cleanings. Starts foaming again within a reasonable time after feedings or maint. I haven't timed it but it's not hours on end of no skimming until it starts back up again.
This is a venturi skimmer but a little different. The venturi is Bermudas own, not taken off the shelf. It is non-clogging. And instead of a typical venturi plumbed into the side of the tower, this one shoots water down a tube into a bottom mixing box. Almost like a Downdraft but with a venturi instead of just a jet of water over bioballs. Requires a moderate pump but I have found that a smaller than recommended pump is more than adequate if it is a good pressure rated pump. The 3C runs great on a Blueline 30HD (pressure rated 590 GPH) and the pump still needs to be slightly throttled down with a gate valve. This is smaller in terms of GPH than what Bermuda recommends.

No needle wheels or other proprietary type of pumps. No pump mods. I don't know how it stacks up to some of the better needle wheel pumps in performance but this is a good skimmer. The relatively few people that run them all seem to love them.

[Reef Sponger]

My H&S recirculating skimmer seems practically immune to any of the things that use to collaspe my foamhead on my Euro-Reef non-recirculating skimmers if that's helpful at all. Once you get familiar with any skimmer, you learn to compensate for them. For my new H&S skimmer, once I found the sweet spot on the 4 day, it's been skimming consistently week after week without any adjustments.

[klam114]

Originally posted by pjf
A baffle keeps my sump water level constant and I still have issues with skimmer sensitivity. Albeit, the flow is fast and turbulent.

With the sump water level kept constant, are in-sump ATi skimmers just as stable as recirculating skimmers?

Are there other secrets to a less finicky skimmer besides a constant sump water level?

Perhaps certain skimmer types (Venturi, needle-wheel, external, internal, recirculating, etc.) are inherently more stable?

The calmer the water is in the skimmer section, the better the performance. So, it's a combination of constant waterlevel and water flowing calmly in that section, just keep the overflows away from the skimmer pump and exhaust. ATi skimmers still is sensitive to when you put your hand in the water, feedings and dosing additives whereas my H&S skimmer is quite insensitive. It's not that an H&S skimmer is not sensitive at all, but I find it quite immune to most things, just keeps skimming and skimming.

[old salty]

I don't touch my skimmer between cleanings. It fills the collection cup every 4 days, so there is some tinkering going on (I have to empty it.) Other than that, I clean the pump every 2 months as this provides optimum performance. This goes well with my "Hands off" approach.

[sjm817]

Anyone want to try the "acid test"?

I've never seen anything that will collapse a foam head like this stuff. Way worse then PE Mysis.

[collins]

I recently switched from an ASM in sump skimmer to an ER recirc that I run externally. The ER RC skimmer hasn't been adjusted since day 2.

I don't have any experience with other externally plumbed recirc skimmers, but it is likely that the constant water level and dedicated pump for foam creation are the difference.

[McCrary]

In sump models of ER and H&S seem to be pretty easy to keep consistent, hardly any adjustments need to be made and their efficiency and skimmate production is very good.

[markandkristen]

thats what i was going to say collins.
i spoke with someone at fins reef
they rate thier skimmers the same on performance with in sump or recirculating skimmers == he said they will skim the same as far as performance .. in other words i would not notice any difference as far as skimmate with a recirculating skimmer or in sump...

the only difference would be if i was pushing it to the max and having it plumbed direclty from my over flow.

i run two euros. and was priceing the cost of making them recirculating..

"i get annoyed by that as well. everytime i feed its over an hour before were back in business. "

so i think its any skimmer that has a descent pump that recirculating

now heres another experiment i found that makes a good skimmer
the collection cup ...i run a euro reef 6-3 with a 3 1/2 neck and my jeffs exotic had the cone type of neck. not straight up like h & s , bubble king, euro reef ,deltec and etc...

so i modded it to have a straight neck and its already improved alot. unfortunately its only 3" rather than 3 1/2 " like my euro reef. so i think that has to do with skimmate as well..

[pjf]

There seems to be a consensus that recirculating skimmers operate in a very consistent manner. Are the least finicky recirculating skimmers feed by the overflow or by a feed pump?

(I assume that if you are using a feed pump, then your sump must have a constant water level to maintain constant pump pressure. If you are using an overflow feed, I assume that the return pump flow rate must be consistent. This must be tough as evaporation greatly affects the water level in the return compartment.)

[Reef Sponger]

I run my H&S in sump with feed pump and it's consistent and not sensitive to waterlevel changes in the sump. Although, in sump non recirculating skimmers are sensitive.

[pjf]

Do you think that your recirculating skimmer will become more sensitive if fed directly from the overflow?

[USC-fan]

recirculating are less sensitives but are still sensitives to food or hands in the tank.

[reefez]

My Octopus NW 3000 Recirc was the poster skimmer for overflows and sensetivity. I fried a Iwaki 40 rlt, and have had a total of 3 floods in the past month and a half all due to this skimmer. It was very finicky and took a solid month to break in good and start skimming reliably on a daily basis.
I originaly had it fed by a Maxi jet fed by sump water. I soon changed that to a direct feed from one of the tanks overflows. The next day I had a flood. If I had it to do over again I would keep my hands off it and just let it run with a lower then normal water level for 3 weeks. And like any skimmer the bubble head collapses when hands are in the tank, and during feedings. Now that it is broken in I'm happy with it.

[sjm817]

All skimmers are sensitive to water chemistry changes. I've run recir and non recirc and both types react to foods/hands in tank/additives etc. Meshwheel skimmers with the very high air draw such as the ATI BMs are more sensitive. I've never had a Beckett, but from what I understand, they are like a MW in this regard as well.

[pjf]

For those with recirculating skimmers, have you noticed if a direct overflow feed results in greater sensitivity than when using a feed pump?

Overall, which type of installation (overflow-fed versus pump-fed) is most successful?

Thanks!