Finger found a mantis !

[reefgrief]

I had the "pleasure" to be moving around live rock in my reef tank, and got a finger speared, abut 2 wks back.. so after jerking that hand out of the tank, and pronouncing some tasty benedictions .. I went looking for the cause.

I have read of mantis attacks prior to this, but never saw one on any of my rock.. even after moving it from quarantine. I have never seen this thing run the tank while lights were on.. nor have I ever heard him pop anything.. or actually eat anything yet.

No fish have ever disappeared.. and no broken or pierced snail shells were around, I deliberately cleaned out most of the shells just to check this last week.

I had a huge snail population which I deliberately stocked .. I mean over 300 snails of various types..along with hermits. and over the last 8 months they kept steadily dying out.. So i looked for diseased snails, then looked for anything on snail disease... didnt get too lucky there. I had heard that hermits were predatory.. but as their numbers thinned out.. The snails kept dropping out at the same rate, and not being used to house bigger hermits... in fact the bigger hermits were missing before the smaller ones.

I really didnt notice that the snails were piling up in any particular area, although there were some scattered piles. I just didnt lay it at a predator that I had never seen. until I moved that big flat shelf rock..then a pile of everything, small rocks, rubble, clam shells and snails were pretty evidently accumulated.. not something that got there by mere chance.

So as it turns out this quy probably killed all the snails, and even clams ect that came in with the live rock.. and I blamed it on some unknown water problem..

This quy is so secretive, I have only gotten a dozen or less glimpse of it. And then only once I knew it was there from getting my finger speared. It is about 3-4 inch .. solid dark red... with front 2 chelicera orange red - both small. about the same size. I havent got a color for the eyes.. and I cant say what the rostrum looks like exactly.. but its NOT protruding like a lobster's does.

My cheap digital can't begin to focus on what glimpses I have of it.

It is definitely a night forager.. I used to blame my fish for bumping over small coral frags..something I never saw them do.. but NOW, I believe it is the mantis on his mid-night romps over the reef, snatching snails.

I wish I could extract the hundreds of bucks in snails he has eaten, from his fat thieving carapace. I am thinking of a shrimp roast .. heh heh.. Know anyone willing to loan me a spear gun ?

Anyone know what species it might be ? How to get this one out ?

I have some bottle traps set for him.. even using snails for bait.. I want him out without having to tear up about 270 to 300 # of live rock. ( the tank is glass, 150 gal)

Push comes to shove, and I will tear it up anyway.. I mean if they can really shatter glass, I would lose the tank contents anyway.. and since I suffer from Murphy's Law Syndrome, it could happen while I wasn't home.. UGH.

Do these things have highly variable behavior ? I lost track of a few pepper mint shrimp sometime back. can I blame him for that too?

Anyone in the SW Ohio area that might like to come get him can PM me. I will trade him for snails.. you wont be needing them anyway..

[Pea-brain]

Could be a chiragra, aggressive, strong, and mostly seclusive. Unless you have florida rock. Pretty much guarenteed N. wennerae there. Chances of breaking glass at 3"-4" is minimal. No records of anyting under 5" breaking standard glass of a ten to my knowledge. Though there is some chance of a crack if it decides to burrow into a corner, comes across a hard obstruction (your glass) and decides it needs to be removed. Continuos pounding could do some dage to a corner. But in a system that size I wouldn't worry about it. Low chance, if any, that it could cause any harm to your tank. If you want to minimize damage on your cleanup crew buy some raw shrimp and get a bamboo skewer. Feed it bits of shrimp every other day and it might lay off your snails (they don't usually kill for fun, but for food). You also might be able to lure it out to catch it. Good luck.

[Altpers0na-old]

if , you can catch em , put it in your sump... let it hang out and do its thing there....

[reefgrief]

Thanks Pea.. I will try to lure it where I can see it.. not sure if I can get that picture .. I will look up both genera u mention, it couldnt hurt to get more info..

I have read most of the postings on these things. So far the idea to use inverted soda bottles to trap them seemed like a good idea .


And exactly what are they good for Altpersona.. I mean that i would want to keep the thing.. I mean it can sting like ( bleep !) and this one isnt even interesting.. its too reclusive, and too much of a threat to offset the need to "have one"

[Freed]

Use a red light at night a few hours after lights out to see and watch it. When it goes into a rock toward the top of the tank quickly yank that rock out of the tank and put it in sump until you know its off that rock.

[justinl]

a mantis that could break glass would have already made itself known. The only damage the mantis could do at this point is kill off CUC. If that's not a big concern, then you can take your time getting him out.

most of us keep mantids because they are simply the coolest invert you will ever encounter. here's a couple of did you knows 1) large mantids can generate up to 1400N (comparable to a .22 caliber bullet at muzzle velocity) of force. 2) our eyes have three colour pigments, but theirs have 16. some can even see infra red and polarised light! ultimate predator? hell yeah. but if you don't want it, then that's your choice. btw, they don't sting, they just hit really hard with club like appendages.

don't use a soda bottle. contamination. use a disposable water bottle. besides soda is bad for you, drink water! lol.

the solid red description sounds like N. wennerae, but that's just a shot in the dark

Freed: that will not work. Mantises, unlike many other inverts, can see red light (They actually see more wavelengths than we do). plus, accrding to murphy's law, a mantis will never pick a burrow on the topmost, easy to reach rock. usually a burrow ends up on the rock that is hardest to get to. If you want to avoid tearing everything down, just use the bottle trap with a load of patience.

[Freed]

OK, it worked for me so it will not work. That's what you are saying right?

[Ehudd]

Freed i think you just had luck.
This tactic seems useless, but u had luck so i guess it might be worth a try.

[Freed]

That's why people here on RC post their experiences.

[Dave12678]

Did you catch him yet? I don't live to far from you I might want him

[justinl]

Freed, i apologize. I was just tryin to say that a tactic like that would have a very low chance of succcess. there are simply better methods.

[Gonodactylus]

Most gonodactyloid stomatopods are diurnal, so I'm curious what this beast could be given that it is highly secretive, almost never comes out, and does not make a lot of noise.

There is only one red nocturnal species that I know of. That is Echinosquilla guerini. Individuals get to about 3-3.5 inches, so that fits. Also, they almost never leave their cavity. They are sit and wait predators that pick of prey as they pass by the cavity entrance. E. guerini has a highly reflective eye. At night, a few minutes after lights out, look a the tank with a small flashlight. If you see a pair of glowing, bilobed eyes looking at you from a hole, it is probably E. g.

Roy

[reefgrief]

I have managed to trap my "mantis".. and it is not !!
It looks more like a small crayfish, or lobster.. Except it can slap? or hit with a violent snap.. It holds its chelicera out in front like a shrimp or lobster.. So i suppose it is a shrimp. Except.. it has 2 swollen chelicera,(one longer than the other) long anttenae, and 8 blue legs, on the carapace, and very tiny swimmerets on the tail.

Its body is red, with a white dorsal strip, and a lateral zagging white strip on each side. Actually quite attractive. As I said, the only food it has eaten are snails, and perhaps small clams that came with the rock.

I will try to post a picture.. Any ideas of what it might be? not sure how u tell a shrimp from a lobster..

[justinl]

is it a pistol shrimp? that would explain the "hitting" and the enlarged appendages.

http://chemistry.csudh.edu/faculty/j...all/pistol.jpg

[reefgrief]

Bingo, that is nearly identical to the one I have, the abdomen markings are a bit different, and the front chelicera is heavier, but the blue legs and antennules are same, and as you can see.. the way it carries the front chelicera is the same..

Thanks ! Now I can look up more on pistol shrimp, to see what else they eat besides my $2.50 each snails.. @$%&&*