bb or sand question

mrpet · #1 01/18/2007, 07:40 PM

man im just not sure what i want to do? i had a 180 with a dsb in
it like the look of sand but blows everywhere and looks ulgy in the front of the tank. bb seems almost to sterile. my new tank just ordered is 72x48x25. might just put like an inch or two in it just dont know what to do. so any input would be great to help me make up my mind...thanks

ycnibrc · #2 01/18/2007, 07:52 PM

BB is more manageable DSB you don't know what's going to happen down te road. BB you can have a lot of flow for SPS. I change my tank from DSB to BB and I love it.

mrpet · #3 01/18/2007, 09:51 PM

no one? come guys....

mrpet · #4 01/18/2007, 09:54 PM

u still like the look of it? dont want to scrape the bottom every
day. plus i would like alot of clams do u have clams in ur bare bottom?

Joe Cool · #5 01/18/2007, 10:12 PM

I just recently switched to barebottom and it was the best decision ive ever made. I think it looks so much better and cleaner. I also have a crocea on my barebottom and hes been doing just fine.

fishfanatic06 · #6 01/18/2007, 10:17 PM

I have a DSB, and I like it. One to two inches of sand would be just fine. It would look good and you would still be able to have an effective way of nitrate removal.

REEF-DADDY · #7 01/18/2007, 10:20 PM

lotsa threads out there, read up and ask some specific questions

mrpet · #8 01/18/2007, 10:41 PM

ya will ck out the older theads guess it really comes down to
what you like best. guess if im going to go bb will add starboard.
gotta be a little easier to aqua scape with sand though..

King-Kong · #9 01/19/2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrpet
u still like the look of it? dont want to scrape the bottom every
day. plus i would like alot of clams do u have clams in ur bare bottom?

I have 3. One Deresa, one crocea, one maxima.

The Deresa doubled in size in 6 months.

Clams arent afraid of BB

King-Kong · #10 01/19/2007, 09:29 AM

...and yes.. I suggest you read up on BB vs. DSB.

"What you like best" with BB vs. DSB means what hardware to buy and how to manage your bioload. BB requires different husbandry skills, and if you dont change your DSB ways when you go BB, you will fail, or have a lot of problems. The change is a lot more than an aesthetic one. It's an entire theory of managing the tank.

SunnyX · #11 01/19/2007, 11:54 AM

I tried BB for a while but couldnt stand the look of it. I now have a Shallow sand bed and have no problems with it. If you take proper care of your tank you should never have any issues with a sandbed.

Henry Bowman · #12 01/19/2007, 12:44 PM

Can someone please post a link to the thread. I am interested in what "different techniques" are needed. I have run sand beds in tanks and am setting one up w/ Bare bottom. I want to do a total SPS tank bare bottom and would like to ensure I have a successful tank?

manofcoral · #13 01/19/2007, 09:02 PM

I am along for the ride. I need this info also.
Paul<><

REEF-DADDY · #14 01/19/2007, 10:56 PM

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...+go+barebottom

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ck+cooking+101

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ight=starboard

Laakmann · #15 01/19/2007, 11:40 PM

IMO if your main issue with BB is that it seems to sterile run a large fuge and maybe dont keep your skimmer on 24/7

Im about to make the switch from a 4in sand bed to a BB system.

i dont eat fish · #16 01/19/2007, 11:59 PM

Just to add. I went BB just recently from a shallow bed (~2-3"). I vacuum the bottom about once a week into a filter sock and to my sump. I love it. I have a mj mod in the same tank and it was a pain to rearrange the sand on a regular basis from the bare spots. It hasn't been long enough to say that my chemical values are in check, but everything is good as of now.

Also FYI. I got my starboard from usplastics.com for dirt cheap compared to the other sites. It was about $30 for a 2'x4'x0.25" section. I used 1/4" HDPE in white with no issues. I cut it with a jig saw, washed it, and put it right in. I was surprised by the glossy finish it had, as i was expecting a more textured (cutting board like) surface.

I'm planning on buying a canister filter soon too, to make the vacuuming process easier. I'll just use filter floss in it for the particulates. Then I can easily vacuum the sump out too.

eidillitih · #17 01/20/2007, 12:36 AM

I was bare bottom for 3 years and love it. I think it is a great technique but I just really love the look of sandbed so with this next set-up I added a SSB. Just have to stay on top of it. BB is so much easier when it come to keeping it clean. No algae problem, parameter stayed good. If I have problem with this SSB, I'll have no problems siphoning it all out.

Jetdrvr · #18 01/20/2007, 12:54 AM

I currently have a 125 with about 200lbs of live rock and a 4" sand bed. I am going to be getting a 180 soon and want to go BB with starboard. Will I have problems with water params when I switch over? My skimmer is way overkill even for a 180.

eidillitih · #19 01/20/2007, 05:52 AM

Shouldn't have any major problems, your rocks will probably need to be shaken real good. It's amazing how much sand gets into those rocks clogging them up which is not good for barebottom because your rock is your main work horse, that and your skimmer. Just make sure to shake them well during the transfer and blow them with a powerhead or turkey baster often after the transfer.

James983 · #20 01/20/2007, 06:27 AM

Bare bottom is probably safer long term. However, I don't think a bare bottom tank looks natural. Besides, I couldn't have my Blue Spot Jawfish in a bare bottom tank.

eidillitih · #21 01/20/2007, 06:55 AM

very true

xxpipedreamxx · #22 01/20/2007, 07:05 AM

Over the course of the last month I have removed all of the sand out of my tank (2 inches) and added it to my fuge. Last night, I got almost all of it out. I had no idea how much crud was in my sand, and oh my Lord my rocks are sooo dirty! Today (once I get some sleep that is) I am going to take my rocks out and shake them very very well while I do a water change. I guess it is time to take all of the corals out and place them in a bucket so I can get it done with no harm. Thank you all for the informative posts!

polcat_4u · #23 01/20/2007, 08:55 AM

I had a 4" DSB for a year, read all those BB threads and changed to BB for another year and finally changed back to 6" DSB. Reasons:

Initially the BB looked real clean (visually) but the nitrates eventually creeped up. You need to skim wet which means you have to keep an eye on SG. I was skimming a gallon per day & that amount needed to be replaced with salt water. You also need to watch your buffering capability without sand. For me it came down to the amount of time and money needed to manage the BB. If you can't afford the extra money for larger pumps and a huge skimmer maybe DSB is better.

I think both methods work well depending on what animals you keep. I have since went to "reef simplification" by keeping less demanding animals, less equipment and more time enjoying my tank instead of constantly messing around with stuff. I think the DSB is a little more forgiving but runs the risk of problems many years down the road. The BB trend should be examined carefully before implementing, it is not a panacea. JMHO and experience...

REEF-DADDY · #24 01/20/2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polcat_4u
I had a 4" DSB for a year, read all those BB threads and changed to BB for another year and finally changed back to 6" DSB. Reasons:

Initially the BB looked real clean (visually) but the nitrates eventually creeped up. You need to skim wet which means you have to keep an eye on SG. I was skimming a gallon per day & that amount needed to be replaced with salt water. You also need to watch your buffering capability without sand. For me it came down to the amount of time and money needed to manage the BB. If you can't afford the extra money for larger pumps and a huge skimmer maybe DSB is better.

I think both methods work well depending on what animals you keep. I have since went to "reef simplification" by keeping less demanding animals, less equipment and more time enjoying my tank instead of constantly messing around with stuff. I think the DSB is a little more forgiving but runs the risk of problems many years down the road. The BB trend should be examined carefully before implementing, it is not a panacea. JMHO and experience...

The question becomes where are all those nutrients going that caused your Nitrates to rise?

King-Kong · #25 01/20/2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polcat_4u
I had a 4" DSB for a year, read all those BB threads and changed to BB for another year and finally changed back to 6" DSB. Reasons:

Initially the BB looked real clean (visually) but the nitrates eventually creeped up. You need to skim wet which means you have to keep an eye on SG. I was skimming a gallon per day & that amount needed to be replaced with salt water. You also need to watch your buffering capability without sand. For me it came down to the amount of time and money needed to manage the BB. If you can't afford the extra money for larger pumps and a huge skimmer maybe DSB is better.

I think both methods work well depending on what animals you keep. I have since went to "reef simplification" by keeping less demanding animals, less equipment and more time enjoying my tank instead of constantly messing around with stuff. I think the DSB is a little more forgiving but runs the risk of problems many years down the road. The BB trend should be examined carefully before implementing, it is not a panacea. JMHO and experience...

Sand does not buffer, and it has been shown that BB tanks consume far less alkalinity than DSBs (far less biological processes consuming carbon sources). In fact, some DSB's who had large calcium and kalkwasser reactors wound up only needed to go with kalk. I, for example, have a 90g with only SPS, and all I use is kalkwasser topoff and my levels are right in line w/ SPS standards.

You are right, however, about hardware needs. BB requires strong flow, and extremely strong skimming; way more than DSB.

Also, I think 1 gallon of skimmate/day was too much. I skim far, far less. In fact, I only have an ASM G-2 and i fill the cup up every 2 days. No algae problems to speak of and thriving SPS corals.

If your nitrates creeped back up, then I am to believe your flow was ineffective and detritus was collecting on rocks and in other areas.

But BB is def. not for everyone, as the upfront costs can be higher, and the tank requires you to find a balance between bioload and detritus removal (lots of BBers first experience pale corals because their tanks become too clean, and they dont feed enough/ have enough fish). This balance is often times ignored, and some users abandon BB thinking its a core flaw of the theory. Really, it's just a flaw in that inviduals understanding and husbandry.