Amino acids. - Page 3

MiddletonMark · #51 08/08/2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
please educate me, what foods will not add any po4 to the water?

Please educate me on what foods/aminos can provide all the requirements of coral nutrition - and not contain anything that could turn into PO4?

AFAIK, corals need Phosphate like they need Nitrogen to live.

MCsaxmaster · #52 08/08/2007, 10:43 AM

Said like a man who wants his corals to have DNA, RNA, and cell membranes

Big E · #53 08/08/2007, 10:54 AM

Fliger,

It's great that the AA's worked for you, but some are missing the point that Rich Conley has pointed out above. Why get rapped by these manufacturers for these little bottles of food when you can reach the same goal much less expensively?

Think about it...........why does every manufacturer now offer AA's when hardly anyone did 2-3 years ago? It's all hype, they're gonna sell whatever is hot at the moment & steal your money.

Flint&Eric · #54 08/08/2007, 11:01 AM

i dont get raped, i make my own...a friend develops sport supplements and has access to pure aa's....to my benefit

Quote:

Please educate me on what foods/aminos can provide all the requirements of coral nutrition - and not contain anything that could turn into PO4?

my corals are receving their nutrition from the foods already being fed. i dont think anyone here is saying aa's will substitute feeding your fish well. i add aa's in addition, and unless i severely OD, which i have on many occassions i do not get algae like i do with a slight increase in feeding my fish. my bio-load is maxed and i have found my "fish food" max...aa's let me push that a little bit farther.

jme.

MiddletonMark · #55 08/08/2007, 11:12 AM

Flint+Eric ... I'm just suggesting that those AA's likely will degrade to PO4 too. Just like fish food/etc.

Flint&Eric · #56 08/08/2007, 11:21 AM

i understand, but in my case it's fairly evident that they are being utilized. as i see no increase in po4, measurable and no increase in algae is seen.

again this is just my experience, in my tank i find them as a benefit...but i will say that in general most would not benefit from the addition of aa's.

Fliger · #57 08/08/2007, 11:31 AM

I guess I manage my reef differently. I do not feed my fish a ton, I like to limit my biomass input. I don't like excessive foods falling to the SB, where the snails and crabs fight over it, the crabs kill the snails, the sand bed fills - etc. I feed minimally. I also typically run an oversized skimmer to pull out nutrients quicker and run carbon & GFO. I also cured or cooked my rock for a very long time. I like a low nutrient tank - void of most nutrients - and add them in as needed. I watch my fish to make sure they are healthy enough - but not so fat & happy that they don't clean my rock. My tank has always remained very clean, I don't get algae, don't have to clean my glass often, my water stays clear and my corals typically stay pretty healthy this way. They were healthy before - but just a little healthier now.

I agree that there are lots of wastes of money out there. I don't use zeovit, or ANY additives. Just water changes, fish food, ca/alk/mg - and aminos. Its really not that expensive, no one is getting rich off of it. The $35 bottle I bought will probably last me a year - so I wouldn't say it costs any more than just feeding more mysis or CE or whatever. This way I don't have to feed as much, and a few times a week I add several drops of AA's. I also don't believe all AA's that are available are the same.

I'm not trying to say use AA's, it makes no difference to me who uses or doesn't use them - just noting that it does work for some people in some situations. There are many ways to a successful reef - this is just one thing that after seeing an improvement - I have no doubt they are having a positive effect. If you feed a ton, I totally agree that it would probably do the same thing - I just don't do it that way - and I really don't think it costs me any more money. Mysis and CE and other frozen foods are pretty darn expensive.

Regarding 2-3 years, I know Elos has been making them for ten years - I have no idea about the others. Europe tends to be a few years ahead of us in technology (DE, T5, NW skimmers, etc) and have been into the low nutrient methodology for a while longer. So maybe the need was there. With US reefers going towards bigger skimmers, barebottom and lower nutrient tanks - we saw a lot of people talking about colors fading. And many of those reefers noticed immediate improvements when starting to use AA's.

Anyhoooo ... just posting my experiences. Maybe its a waste of money - but its not a lot of money, and I like money.

I have a good friend who has an incredible SPS tank, DSB, feeds his prized wrasses a TON, just just got a bottle to try. I'm interested to see if he sees any visual differences. I'll ask him to post his experiences if he uses them. I kinda doubt with the rich colors he has, that he'll see a difference. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

MCsaxmaster · #58 08/08/2007, 11:36 AM

Depending on the purity of the other "stuff" in the bottles I wouldn't think there should be much phosphate in them. The amino acids themselves don't contain phosphorus. The 20 common amino acids (of which only a subset are in these solutions) contain N, C, H, O, and in cysteine and methionine S, but there is no P in the structure of any of them. As for what else is in the bottle, who knows?

cj

RichConley · #59 08/08/2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fliger
I guess I manage my reef differently. I do not feed my fish a ton, I like to limit my biomass input. I don't like excessive foods falling to the SB, where the snails and crabs fight over it, the crabs kill the snails, the sand bed fills - etc. I feed minimally. I also typically run an oversized skimmer to pull out nutrients quicker and run carbon & GFO. I also cured or cooked my rock for a very long time. I like a low nutrient tank - void of most nutrients - and add them in as needed. I watch my fish to make sure they are healthy enough - but not so fat & happy that they don't clean my rock. My tank has always remained very clean, I don't get algae, don't have to clean my glass often, my water stays clear and my corals typically stay pretty healthy this way. They were healthy before - but just a little healthier now..

So the issue at heart here, is you can't feed enough because you're worried about the sandbed?

Up your flow. Feed more. Or pay $50 per 50ml. Its up to you.

Fliger · #60 08/08/2007, 11:55 AM

I have plenty of flow, trust me. Like I said before Rich - you are an expert on everything and every other way MUST be wrong. I should sell my equipment and forget my 18 years of saltwater tanks and mimic your tank. Are we still sticking to the same story of why we never see full tank shots, Rich?

And I apologize in advance MiddletonMark (Mod) if that was out of line. I just find it funny when people know EVERYTHING and we never see anything but posts. Some reefers have autosigs specifically talking about these types.

I think the price was $34, btw - and it will last me at least six months. And if I were anal enough to figure out how much I save on frozen foods, it might just offset that. But I'm not.

Anyway, unsubscribing now. This is just silly.

DrDNA · #61 08/08/2007, 12:07 PM

FWIW, I tried some of the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich Conley. My tank is 300g with a DSB and a mix of various SPS and some LPS and zoanthids. I also have about 20 fish, though most of them are 2" or less. My SPS did have good color but I figured I might try and improve on it. So, I tried adding some Elos AAs and got mainly negative results... no additional PE on the SPS, most of the zoos, especially the palythoas, closed up and would not open, and the ORP which is usually around 400-425 went down to around 250 and stayed there. So, after several water changes, I am back to the original husbandry of plenty (perhaps and excess) of flake and frozen foods, polyp extension is good on the few SPS I have, and the cnidarians look happy again. I am by no means an SPS expert and don't have very many SPS yet, mainly some torts and some other acros, but from what I have seen I get as good, if not better, results by adding a little extra fish food.

GSMguy · #62 12/15/2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
Flint+Eric ... I'm just suggesting that those AA's likely will degrade to PO4 too. Just like fish food/etc.

In their tank i think they are skimmed out before they are able to degrade.

Whups sorry for bumping an old thread.

Denadai · #63 12/15/2007, 09:38 PM

I tried the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich

My NO3 always was 0 ppm

Now, he is 10 ppm after one week dosing Elos AA´s........and before someone ask........no, I don´t overdose...

Regards

Rickyrooz1 · #64 12/15/2007, 09:49 PM

I started using Warner Marine Amino Acid's three weeks ago and notice extension of my SPS polyps.

fishfanatic06 · #65 12/15/2007, 10:12 PM

I agree with Fliger.
Rich, I will believe you when you post some pictures of your tank.

Flint&Eric · #66 12/16/2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denadai
I tried the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich

My NO3 always was 0 ppm

Now, he is 10 ppm after one week dosing Elos AA´s........and before someone ask........no, I don´t overdose...

Regards

denadai, amino acids are an organic source of nitrogen and will not register on a no3 test....unless they are overdosed to the tank to the point they are not utilized and break down. with that said you may have followed the directions, but it seems your tank's allowance for them is smaller than usual.

Rickyrooz1 · #67 12/16/2007, 12:24 AM

PUGroyale · #68 12/16/2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rickyrooz1
I started using Warner Marine Amino Acid's three weeks ago and notice extension of my SPS polyps.

]

Not trying to pick at your argument but our tanks are in a constant state of flux. I notice different levels of PE from day to day without adding anything. BTW... what's the first coral you pictured? It's very nice

Rickyrooz1 · #69 12/16/2007, 12:40 AM

ORA Chip's Acropora. Bought it from Live Aquaria.

Denadai · #70 12/16/2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
denadai, amino acids are an organic source of nitrogen and will not register on a no3 test....unless they are overdosed to the tank to the point they are not utilized and break down. with that said you may have followed the directions, but it seems your tank's allowance for them is smaller than usual.

I dosed a half that I read in the manual

I have a 160G tank , huge skimmer, lot of flow and light and etc

I just stopped Elos AA´s yesterday....after one week I will measure the NO3 again and let´s see the results

Regards

Flint&Eric · #71 12/16/2007, 10:17 AM

with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline. no one can tell you your total nitrogen levels.

my guess is you are not nitrogen limited and your tank does not need them. that would explain the amino acids not being utilized and breaking down into no3. if you take ro/di water and add pure amino acids, the no3 levels should be zero.

wcpeixoto · #72 12/16/2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline.

Totally agree. Each tank is so specific in import/export nutrients system and capacity that is up to the reefer figure out how much stuff should go in.

I use Ultramin-S everyday, about 1/3 of the recommended dosage. Most of my acros close polyps as soon as they sense it on water. When Ultramin-S finishes will try Elos Omega, I have a great respect for that company.

I really preffer do not overfeed and suplement if necessary with more specific products. Is that right ? I don´t know, but is working for me.

Denadai · #73 12/16/2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline. no one can tell you your total nitrogen levels.

my guess is you are not nitrogen limited and your tank does not need them. that would explain the amino acids not being utilized and breaking down into no3. if you take ro/di water and add pure amino acids, the no3 levels should be zero.

I know that.....that´s why I started with half....maybe I have to dose less...maybe 1/3 or even 1/4

But 0 from 10 ppm of NO3 in just one week is really too much for me

Regards

Rickyrooz1 · #74 12/16/2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
i dont get raped, i make my own...a friend develops sport supplements and has access to pure aa's....to my benefit

my corals are receving their nutrition from the foods already being fed. i dont think anyone here is saying aa's will substitute feeding your fish well. i add aa's in addition, and unless i severely OD, which i have on many occassions i do not get algae like i do with a slight increase in feeding my fish. my bio-load is maxed and i have found my "fish food" max...aa's let me push that a little bit farther.

jme.

How do you know when your bio-load is maxed out? Does algae constantly grow on the glass or does your PO4 levels increase even while running GFO or do other levels become unbalanced?