MH HQI Bulb Recommendation - Please

[Indyws6]

Greetings
I am considering a change in my lighting and would like recommendations on bulb choices. If you would, please mention why you recommend (or discourage using) that specific manufacturer. I am also interested in comments on my potential change.

I have a Current USA Outer Orbit 48" system over my 90G reef that includes (2) 150W 10,000K HQI MH, (2) 130W 420/460nm Actinic and (6) Moonlights. The tank has been in operation for 8 months now and the few corals that I have are thriving (Mushrooms, Orange Ricordea's, Pulsing Silver Xenia and Anthelia, Toadstool Leather and some hitchhiker Porites). I am not having any problems, but I am ready to begin a serious stocking effort and gear the tank towards SPS. I would like to have a "bluer" look and I am considering a move to 12,000K bulbs and thought that doing so prior to stocking would be better than changing the color temperature after the fact.

Questions
=======
* What bulb manufacturer should I consider (and why)
* Can you think of any reason why I shouldn't change from 10,000K to 12,000K MH bulbs?

Any other comments/suggestions you may have would be welcome. Thanks in advance...

[aaron7405]

for 12000K you can get a reeflux 12000K they have a bluer sprectrum with a clar white look.

The corals expand realy nice too.

I had the bulbs tahn came with current lamps (I had a sunpod) and they my corals brown until I change to reeflux.

aaron

[Indyws6]

AARON74405 - Thanks
I'll take a look at the Reeflux bulbs.

Any other input? Considering the cost, I'd like to get as many recommendations as possible before writing a check

[aaron7405]

September Tank of the month use the 12000k reeflux
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...totm/index.php

[aaron7405]

Forget to tell you I have one reeflux 150W DE 12000K
if you like that bulbs than I can sell to you I only use it for 3 hours and I sold my lamp so I kep the bulb new

In the september tank you can read the ligth related part.

[GatorWPB]

Check out the Aqualine AB 10Ks. They actually have 13K spectrum, but great par levels. Which is needed for an deeper tank with only 150w bulbs like we have.
With all that actinic supplementation you have, I think you'll have the blue look you want. They arent as blue at first, but after the burn in, more blue comes out. without supplementation, they are a white blue.

[Indyws6]

AARON7405 - Thanks
I'll take another look at the TOM article and pay attention to the lighting-related parts. If I decide on the Reeflux bulbs, I'll let you know. What would you want for the used bulb?

GATORWPB - Thanks
Any idea why they advertise the Aqualine as a 10,000K bulb if it actually measures 13,000K? Seems odd.

All,
Does anyone else have comments or opinions? I have seen others recommend Ushio bulbs but know nothing about them. Does anyone think I am crazy for moving from 10,000K to 12,000K with the 260W of Actinic I have?

Thanks again

[aaron7405]

Aq line is nice but they are expensives do. around the $100´s.

I can sell you the bulb for 40+ shipping. like I say is only 3 hour use

[Indyws6]

AARON7405 - Thanks again. I'll keep that in mind as I decide what to do.

I'm hoping that others will also chime in with some recommendations and personal experience.

Take Care

[Indyws6]

AARON7405 - Thanks again. I'll keep that in mind as I decide what to do.

I'm hoping that others will also chime in with some recommendations and personal experience.

Take Care

[DarG]

The Aqualine 10000 (Aqualine Buschke) does indeed measure about 13000K but that is without the glass shield. With the glass shield it is just under 11000K on electronic ballast, just over 10000K on magnetic. It's a white bulb with just a slight hint of blue, but you have enough flourescent supplementation that you should be able to blue it up pretty well. If you want a signifigantly bluer look, you may not be really happy with it though.

It's actually pretty similiar to the XM you have now with a little bit more blue while keeping about the same par. You probably will want to go bluer from the sounds of it. Problem is that you probably wont find anything that is much bluer without losing par. The new Iwasaki Aqua2 20000K may be an option. I havent seen any test data on it. However, the Iwasaki Aqua 50000K (misleading, it's not that blue) is pretty bright for it's color. It's drops almost 20 points to your XM on electronic ballast but is definitely bluer (Still my favorite color bulb). The 20000K Iwasaki Aqua2 should be brighter (according to the specs) than the Iwasaki Aqua which may make it a good choice for what you want ... a bluer bulb without giving up too much par over what you have now. Maybe email Steve at Coralreefecosystems dot com and ask him about that Iwasaki Aqua2 and get his opinion. I think it's available now and he is very familiar with Iwasaki and halide lighting in general.

[Indyws6]

DarG - Thanks for the detailed information. Your assumptions are pretty much spot-on: I want to "blue-up" the look a little (at least enough to be noticeable) without giving-up more than necessary on PAR. I'll take your advice and squirt an email out to get some advice/recommendations.

Thanks again...

[lhoy]

I love my Phoenix 14K bulbs. Nice blue and I am not a big fan of a white overall appearance. I have enjoyed these bulbs for two years now.

Lee

[Tennsquire]

Originally posted by aaron7405
Aq line is nice but they are expensives do. around the $100´s.

I can sell you the bulb for 40+ shipping. like I say is only 3 hour use

If you look around, you can find AB10Ks for less (like 70s). I've had them on my 75 for years and like the look. Also, if you want to add some PAR, you can always switch your t-5s over to ATI Blue Plus bulbs. I put them in the outer orbit orbit pro fixture on my prop tank, and had to move the frags down because they were getting cooked.

[DarG]

Originally posted by Tennsquire
If you look around, you can find AB10Ks for less (like 70s). I've had them on my 75 for years and like the look. Also, if you want to add some PAR, you can always switch your t-5s over to ATI Blue Plus bulbs. I put them in the outer orbit orbit pro fixture on my prop tank, and had to move the frags down because they were getting cooked.

He has the Outer Orbit version with power compacts. If it was the 4 X T5 fixture (like I had as well) going with bluer, lower par Halides wouldnt be an issue, I agree. He could use whiter T5's and Blue + to make up for the loss in par.

[neelix]

You can retro-fit the fixture, add 2 T5s and ditch the PC. 150 watt halides are kind of weak for a 90 IMO.

[zoozilla]

Phoenix 14K

[DarG]

Originally posted by neelix
You can retro-fit the fixture, add 2 T5s and ditch the PC. 150 watt halides are kind of weak for a 90 IMO.

Agreed. Probably best to stick with higher par halides. My 90 was only 18 - 19" to the sand bed because of plenum and DSB and I was fine with 150s' plus I had the 4 X t5's but at 24" depth, and the two PC's I would probably stay with higher par bulbs. I did run the Aqualine 10000's for a while and with teh 4 T5's had plenty of T5 to blue up the halides.

But Personally, I wouldnt retrofit the fixture for T5's . If I for sure did not have enough light, I would convert to 250 watt halides. It's pretty easy mod in the Outer Orbits and can even be done with internal electronic ballasts. Can also be returned to 150 with no signs of having been modded. But Indy may have plenty of light without worrying about messing with all that. Even with PC's instead of T5's there should be enough Par to keep what he wants in the 90. Just may need to limit the halides to higher par lamps.

Indyws6 ... is the tank bare bottom? DSB? If it is, you may have more options as far as bulbs. You can probably afford to lose a little par with a bluer bulb.

[Emster]

Phoenix 14K's

[DarG]

The Phoenix would cost the OP a decent Par hit, something he is trying to avoid if possible.

[Indyws6]

Greetings All - Thanks for the information - much appreciated...

* DarG - you are correct, it is the Outer Orbit system wih PC lighting.

* I don't want to retro-fit the light system at this point and (potentially) affect the reliability of the unit. If I did, I would be inclined to up the MH to 250W and leave the PC system alone. As I stock the tank, if it becomes apparent that more light is needed, I might, however, re-think that decision...

* My tank has a deep sand bed (approximately 5")

* I have a substantial amount of live rock; more than 135 lbs. In an effort to keep the live rock off the back glass (for ease of cleaning) it is stacked high all the way across the tank. So much so, that a normal (~18 gallon) water change comes close to exposing the top layer of rock. I will likely need to re-aquascape and remove the top layer as I stock the tank just to make room for the corals I get. The idea was that I could utilize 150W MH's (to save some $ on the initial lighting purchase and on-going electricity costs) and use the height of the rock to my advantage by placing light-hungry corals high in the tank. Make sense?

* Assuming that I don't do any retro-fit work on the lighting at this time, I guess the question is: what MH bulb would provide a "bluer" look while minimizing any PAR losses

Thaks again for the input and suggestions...

[DarG]

Indy ... your actual depth then is under 20". You should be ok with the 150 watt halides. You may still need to be careful with the halides and not losing too much par. If you had the T5 version, it wouldnt be as important. But even with 260 watts for supplemental PC, you are still getting some help in the PAR department from the PC's. I dont think you need to mod anything, I think you will be fine with the lighting you have.

I got a little info from Steve on the new Iwasaki bulbs (20K Aqua2). Not sure if you emailed him or not. But he told me that the 20K's had about the same par as the 50K's but were a little bluer. Not a 20K blue according to him but more of a true 13 or 14K. The 50K's arent a typical blue bulb. They have a good amount of actinic energy and the color is a bit unique. With the depth being under 20", I bet you could go with a bit bluer bulb and lose a little par and be fine. I would look into the Iwasaki's ... either the 50K Aqua or the 20K Aqua2. Also, the Aqualine 10000 is still a good choice if you dont want to chance losing any par at all. It will be a bit whiter with maybe a touch of blue. They really are great bulbs for Par and color in the 150 watt DE class. Again, with 19" deep tank, I think you have a little more flexibility in bulb choices. I dont think you will have any issues keeping anything you want to with the lighting you have.

If you do decide you want to go up to 250 watt in that fixture, let me know and I will tell you what you need to mod the fixture. It is somehwere between 250 bucks and 300 bucks in parts because you need new ballasts to do it. But it isnt hard.

[Indyws6]

DARG - Greetings Again
Thanks for the additional information. Although more is generally better when it comes to lighting, given the actual depth of the tank and the ability to place things high in the tank on the live rock, I, too, felt that 150W MH's would be "OK".

Which do you think is the best choice for my tank: the Iwasaki 20K Aqua2 or the Iwasaki 50K's? I am leaning towards the 20K Aqua2's, but am open to suggestions. It sounds like the Aqualine 10,000K bulbs would be a good choice as a "direct" replacement if I wasn't interested in trying to noticeably increase the blue look. Just to be clear, there is no problem with running the Aqua2's (or 50K's, for that matter) on the ballasts in the Outer Orbit fixture?

I would appreciate the information on modifying the fixture for 250W bulbs. Although I may not do it right away, it would be good to have the details. Who knows - I may decide to go that route sonner rather than later. If you don't mind, send it to me at nelson (dot) mark@remyinc (dot) com. I assume that purchasing the Iwasaki bulbs from Coral Reef Eco Systems is the best choice?

Thanks again for the help and information...

[DarG]

Steve at Coral Reef Ecosystems probably has the best pricing on the Iwasaki Bulbs. He's a good guy so I would talk to him about what bulb he thought would fit the most with what you are wanting to do. The Fixture uses electronic ballasts and the Iwasaki's should run fine on them. I ran the 50K's on the same ballasts as you have. The 50K is a crisp white bulb with a definite blue tint but it's more of a blue and actinic blend rather than the usual 460 nm blue look. I love the color myself and you could run the bulb alone without blue supplementation if you werent going for an overly blue look. The Compact flourescents should have no problem being able to blue it up more if you wanted to. The 20K is a little bluer with the blue looking more of the usual blue according to Steve. I havent seen the 20K.

I'll email you with some details on the mod and iof you ever do it and need more specifics I'll be glad to help.

[Indyws6]

DARG - Thanks Again
I'll give Steve a call. I was leaning towards the 20,000K Aqua2, primarily because it has 8000 initial lumens (vs. 6000 Lumens for the 50,000K). I look forward to the details on the retrofit options for 250W MH's.

Take Care...