Phosphate in frozen food

Obi-dad · #1 11/28/2007, 06:31 PM

Holy shmoly! My tank always tests 0.03 on the Hanna phosphate meter - but I have always tested in the morning before feeding. Last night I tested 10 minutes after feeding half a frozen cube of enriched brine shrimp, and it was 0.41. Yikes! By morning it was 0.03 again, so I added the other half of the cube of enriched brine shrimp and retested after 10 minutes - 0.38.

I had read somewhere here on RC about rinsing frozen food, but never bothered (d'oh!). I will be testing after rinsing the food, and will test after feeding other foods. No wonder I have algae even with GFO in a phosban reactor and chaeto.

Gobie74 · #2 11/28/2007, 07:02 PM

Looking forward to hearing what you find out since that's probably my source of phosphates too then

renogaw · #3 11/29/2007, 08:07 AM

if you read the ingredients, the first ingredient is liquid (well, not needed for our tank) and down the list are multiple phosphate chemical components. Unfortunately, they are what enriches the food because they are vitamins. brine is horrid for your fish anyway unless you're hatching them, so is it even worth buying them if you're rinsing out all the vitamins?

Obi-dad · #4 11/29/2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by renogaw
if you read the ingredients, the first ingredient is liquid (well, not needed for our tank) and down the list are multiple phosphate chemical components. Unfortunately, they are what enriches the food because they are vitamins. brine is horrid for your fish anyway unless you're hatching them, so is it even worth buying them if you're rinsing out all the vitamins?

The enriched brine I was using was not enriched with chemicals, it was spirulina fed to the brine shrimp (supposed to be better than plain brine shrimp). But I don't feed that very often, I use various other dried and frozen foods. I will be testing them also.

ShiftNation · #5 11/29/2007, 10:26 AM

Great thread , let us know your other results .

erickrm · #6 11/29/2007, 10:35 AM

holy crap! i feed spirulina with mysis frozen packs, for my pipe/hawk/chromis! now i was wondering why my algea starting to grow faster? i just got the frozen food like a week ago... and i feed heavy!!!

KingOfJericho · #7 11/29/2007, 10:39 AM

You guys should always be rinsing the food before adding it to the aquarium. Take a small amount of water from the tank and melt the food in it. Then, strain it through a net over the sink and rinse the food nicey nice. Then get a fresh cup of tank water and put the food in. The breeding tanks are loaded with phosphates!

LeslieP · #8 11/29/2007, 11:35 AM

Yet one more reason for making your own frozen food when you can - and it's even cheap!

erickrm · #9 11/29/2007, 11:48 AM

well i guess you learn something new every day huh.... lol

leslie what do you use to make ur own food

where do ya get yar mysis from

ahahah j/k

renogaw · #10 11/29/2007, 12:58 PM

i make my own as well.

clam, oyster, shrimp, muscles, squid, dried seaweed, and garlic.

i was quite surprised to find out that what i make is close to that popone (or whatever it was called).

i supplement with formula 1 and 2 frozen (almost no phosphates) and with mysid shrimp (there are some with no phosphates in the ingredients). i don't waste my money on brine anymore.

seacraze · #11 11/29/2007, 01:25 PM

I am so glad you posted this!

Can you tell how many gallons the tank is? By your post it sounds as if you dropped int he cube - if it was rinsed first can you reply --- thanks

pecan2phat · #12 11/29/2007, 01:41 PM

As Leslie said, better to make your food which enables you to rinse a lot of the crud away.

I buy a block of mysis and plankton (MR group buy) which will last about a year. The day that I get the blocks, I usually divide them into about 6 sections each since they are somewhat workable and not rock frozen from the trip home. Saran wrap, aluminum foil then into ziplocks.
When I make a batch of food, I'll grab a section of mysis & plankton and let thaw while I hit the supermarket to get a pound of raw table shrimp, whatever saltwater fish fillet that is on sale and a fillet of FW salmon for the oils. If I see squid (which I haven't lately), I'll add that too.
I don't do clams or mussels but you can definitely add that to your mix. (I insanely tend to believe that my fish will start munching on my ornamental clams if they get a taste

)
Come home, shred up about 10 large sheets of dried nori and let it soak in a large bowl with RO/DI water (just enough to let the nori hydrate) and add some Kent Marine C or Boyd's. Start to prep your table shrimp by peeling, rinsing and cutting up to chunks. Rinse and cut up the fish and squid also.
Take a 5" net and start rinsing the mysis with cold tap water & plankton afterwards. (lots of rinsing for these two) Make like a giant meatball to squeeze out most of the water

, and place it in with your hydrated nori.
Add 1 whole frozen bar of cyclopeeze into your bowl while you work on the other ingredients.
Get the spouse's food processor when she's not home or you'll be in for a beating and start processing the fish, shrimp & squid. I usually do one at a time since I use a mini processor. Don't liquidfy unless intentional, do short burst and see if the size is what suits your fish's needs.
Add this all to your bowl, add selcon and garlic extreme to the mix and roll up your sleeves to start mixing with your hands or spoon.

Consistency should be like oatmeal and not too watery. I usually end up adding some RO/DI water till it's about what I want.
Get some 1 gallon freezer ziplocks and spoon or laddle into the ziplock. You'll see why the consistency cannot be too watery. Fill ziplock about half and gently lay on a flat surface to flatten out the food. This gets most of the air out while you zip the bag. Adjust amount of food for desired thickness.

Let freeze and on your 1st feeding, you can place the food on a cutting board, give it a few minutes and start cutting into cubes, squares, circles or whatever.....
I then put this into a plastic container and back into the freezer.

Now you have home brew with the best ingredients that you are willing to put out for

and as little crud ladden phosphate as possible with no rinsing needed.

renogaw · #13 11/29/2007, 01:49 PM

I take it one step further on the ziploc

i spread this disgustingly smelly concoction out onto wax paper

that way it is easy to break off.

erickrm · #14 11/29/2007, 01:59 PM

i will take one zip lock bag please

hahah....

Great info guys! thanks alot, i guess i have a weekend project now

woot!

So what kind of mysis should i buy from the LFS? any that you guys know of that deff dont have phosphates? Thanks again for the great info

pecan2phat · #15 11/29/2007, 02:28 PM

If I had to buy mysis from a LFS, I would try to find the Piscine brand. Definitely a noticable difference, whole pieces with color vs the competitors.

erickrm · #16 11/29/2007, 02:33 PM

thanks

renogaw · #17 11/29/2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by erickrm
i will take one zip lock bag please hahah....

Great info guys! thanks alot, i guess i have a weekend project now woot!

So what kind of mysis should i buy from the LFS? any that you guys know of that deff dont have phosphates? Thanks again for the great info

if you want some i have a quartsize ziploc (a sheet of about 5"x7") extra from when i made it last. i don't know the name of the mysid i have, but i tried some stuff and the shrimp were so big my fish couldnt eat it. the last stuff i got from petco and it seems ok. i'll check what type it is.

btw, i also use this mush to feed my anenomes and sun coral, palythoas, and candicane

erickrm · #18 11/29/2007, 02:49 PM

I appreciate it. but the size is probably too big for my fish

i have a jap. bluestripe pipe, 2 1" chromis, and a pygmy hawk which is like 2" lol.... not sure how well they would eat it if it is a lil chunkier

where do you live?

renogaw · #19 11/29/2007, 03:23 PM

ehh, most of the sizes once chopped up are only about 1/2" square max. most of it is small enough to go into one of those coral spot feeders though. the bigger stuff is great for feeding the banned crabs.

YUM!!

renogaw · #20 11/29/2007, 03:28 PM

i use this thing, $15 at stop and shop:

erickrm · #21 11/29/2007, 05:05 PM

mmmmm that looks yummy lol.... looks great! damn i should def start making my own stuff

thanks for sharing those pics

renogaw · #22 11/29/2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by erickrm
mmmmm that looks yummy lol.... looks great! damn i should def start making my own stuff thanks for sharing those pics

yea, wait till you smell it...

seriously though, all the ingredients are cheap enough where you'd probably save a ton of money and actually feed your fish/tank something worth feeding. i know someone who is at their local stop and shop every other tuesday and picks up for free the stuff that they are going to throw out because of the expiration date (as long as he gets there before they put it in the compactor that is).

Gobie74 · #23 11/29/2007, 07:25 PM

After feeding today I did a quick test with the Phosphate meter and I got 0.04.

Today was also the first day I filtered all the food out of the water I thawed it in so I can't really say what it would have been had I not filtered it.

The only thing I couldn't really filter was the frozen Cyclopeeze, they went right through the net. I'm going to see if I can find something that can filter them, or do you think they are pretty free of phosphates? I use the large frozen package thats about a foot long and 9" wide. I didn't see any weight on the label

giants4pc · #24 11/29/2007, 10:58 PM

I've been wondering what was causing excess algae in my tank. I feed brine very often. I thaw it out with a small plastic cup of tank water but then I just dump it in the tank. I test for phosphates and it always reads zero however.

I also have purchased frozen raw shrimp that I thaw and cut into pieces. The fish love it. The blender mush works well. Now I know to rinse everything like crazy before I add it. I'm curious to find out if it will work.

KingOfJericho · #25 11/29/2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gobie74
After feeding today I did a quick test with the Phosphate meter and I got 0.04.

Today was also the first day I filtered all the food out of the water I thawed it in so I can't really say what it would have been had I not filtered it.

The only thing I couldn't really filter was the frozen Cyclopeeze, they went right through the net. I'm going to see if I can find something that can filter them, or do you think they are pretty free of phosphates? I use the large frozen package thats about a foot long and 9" wide. I didn't see any weight on the label

Cyclopeeze do not need to be filtered but things like brine and mysis shrimp certainly do. I use a Phosban reactor with ROWA Phos and my phosphates are almost nil changing the media monthly (buy it online as it's pricey in stores). It's a cheap solution to algae that I don't know why people would live without!