Please rank these skimmers - Page 5

flasher1 · #**101** 05/20/2007, 07:27 PM

I use an octopus on my 50g and it works beautifully. I produce about a 8 oz of skimmate per day

Reef Sponger · #**102** 05/20/2007, 07:29 PM

Chris, read through the 3 huge threads on this guy. See how many times he has helped others. He has over 10 years experience with ER skimmers, all different models. But if he doesn't have time, he'll let you know and get back to you. Read through his 3 huge threads, you will be surprised, I was. I thought I knew ER skimmers since I've been using them for so long, but kmaintl has so many different ERs under their belt. KLam is right, he's the man to go to.

JAANDGC · #**103** 05/20/2007, 07:36 PM

I guess I'm just missing the boat here. After a quick look on the internet I found some 6 inch cast acrylic tubing for 60 dollars a foot retail and most of these kick butt pumps everyone keep refering to are around 130 -150 dollars so outside of some connection pieces and some fittings, the ER and most of the others ( if you look at them they all have the same design) have around 300 to 350 dollars worth of parts, thats retail mind you I'm sure they only pay five to ten dollars a foot whole sale for acrylic tube. That leave in some casses four or five hundred dollars for labor and profit. They sure have some of us fooled. Before I ever bought a 1000 dollars skimmer I would buy a 300 dollar nock off and replace the pumps and I bet I would still come out 200+ dollars a head. Lets look at the AE400 300 dollars for a masive skimmer replace all 3 pumps for lets say 400 dollars and you have a 700 dollar skimmer that works like a 1500 dollar skimmer. Do you agree are am I out in left field ( I like being out in left field). Most of the price is just hipe people. Look at the designs, They are all the same.
Jerry

A sea K · #**104** 05/20/2007, 07:37 PM

Reef Sponger, Ill read the thread and see if I can pick up something, I'm trying some pump mods this week to see how that goes. If I still cant produce anything I'll give him a call out of sheer desperation.
flasher1's 8oz daily on a 50 gal exceeds what my ER pulls out of my 210! Pretty sad.

kodyboy · #**105** 05/20/2007, 07:41 PM

A sea K, What is wrong with your ER? What is it doing?

JAANDGC · #**106** 05/20/2007, 07:41 PM

A sea K what is your bioload and how much do you feed, if for example you only have 3 fish in that 210 and feed lightly and flasher has 20 in his 55 and feeds 3 times a day. He is suppose to be pulling out more gunk.

klam114 · #**107** 05/20/2007, 07:44 PM

A sea K, the new ATi Bubblemaster 250, you will be impressed with. I think we're all beginning to understand "buy right the first time and don't waste money!" Right is different depending if you are a DIYer or not.

I'm sure that you just need to get your ER set right. Maybe you can start a new thread and other ER owners can help you fine tune that thing.

TheNomadRhodes · #**108** 05/20/2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JAANDGC
I guess I'm just missing the boat here. After a quick look on the internet I found some 6 inch cast acrylic tubing for 60 dollars a foot retail and most of these kick butt pumps everyone keep refering to are around 130 -150 dollars so outside of some connection pieces and some fittings, the ER and most of the others ( if you look at them they all have the same design) have around 300 to 350 dollars worth of parts, thats retail mind you I'm sure they only pay five to ten dollars a foot whole sale for acrylic tube. That leave in some casses four or five hundred dollars for labor and profit. They sure have some of us fooled. Before I ever bought a 1000 dollars skimmer I would buy a 300 dollar nock off and replace the pumps and I bet I would still come out 200+ dollars a head. Lets look at the AE400 300 dollars for a masive skimmer replace all 3 pumps for lets say 400 dollars and you have a 700 dollar skimmer that works like a 1500 dollar skimmer. Do you agree are am I out in left field ( I like being out in left field). Most of the price is just hipe people. Look at the designs, They are all the same.
Jerry

I'm with Jerry on this one they are all the same.
Its price and name thats pretty much it.

kodyboy · #**109** 05/20/2007, 08:42 PM

Jerry,
I have to agree as well.

nick18tjetta · #**110** 05/20/2007, 08:43 PM

But don't forget about the price of that airstone in that 1500 skimmer.

Cultivatedcoral · #**111** 05/20/2007, 09:55 PM

My .02 here.

I have 2 Tunze DOC skimmers. Size and skimmate production are excellent and they are basically silent!

Now I bought a Euro-reef RS 180 and must say the stock pump it comes with is horrendous with NOISE LIKE A TRAIN! I upgraded to the Eheim 1262 much better on noise but no way as quiet as a Tunze.

I'm really not impressed with my Euroreef skimmer at all and I would say Tunze blows Euro-reef away in size, sound and skimmate production.

sjm817 · #**112** 05/20/2007, 10:06 PM

nm

PrangeWay · #**113** 05/21/2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

They sure have some of us fooled. Before I ever bought a 1000 dollars skimmer I would buy a 300 dollar nock off and replace the pumps and I bet I would still come out 200+ dollars a head. Lets look at the AE400 300 dollars for a masive skimmer replace all 3 pumps for lets say 400 dollars and you have a 700 dollar skimmer that works like a 1500 dollar skimmer. Do you agree are am I out in left field ( I like being out in left field).

Yes and No. The truth is how many people that you know that have reef tanks DIY? Here at RC it's a higher percentage but if you think of everyone you actually know from clubs and such it's probably what 1 in 10? Yes it'd make sense (as long as you take those stupid stupid T's out of the body) and may save you money, but if only 10% of people are going to do it tops, there is a market out there for a quality, finished prodcut. I personally never DIY, despite being pretty handy, because I'm lazy, I want a finished product when I buy something.

That's where I honestly worry about how we can affect new reefers with some of the posts on this board. Just do X and Y and this skimmer (or other product) rules! But since they're a noob they never do that and are stuck with sub-standard performance which could lead to problems that lead them out of the hobby...

PW

Fliger · #**114** 05/21/2007, 11:22 AM

1. Bubble King
2. H&S
3. Elos
4. Tunze
5. Deltec
6. ER

I've only read the first and last pages but I've owned these 6 so will only comment on them. 1) BK, easily my fave due to performance & dead silence but I had the BK300 Ext before the prices went sky high. 2) H&S, the best of the rest - great service & performance, great replacement costs (and fast). 3) Elos, I didn't give the NS1000 long enough - but I liked it enough to be trying out an NS4000 in the next month or so. Like most of these brands the service is excellent. 4) Tunze - I had the 9010 and had unbelievable performance from it. I think a slight mod to get the water level lower made mine perform so well giving me a dry - stanky skimmate. 5) Hard to put this one here, I had an MCE600 and hated it - I also ran the AP702 and it was awesome. Just don't like the replacement part costs. 6) I had a 12-2RC long ago with Sedra 5000's and had the worst luck with customer service. Since then tho ER has really improved their skimmers from what I've read.

I think really with the top 5 you're splitting hairs and depending on your exact setup the order might be different. They would all be great choices. I would run any of the top 5 and not worry that another might be 3% better since we all over skim anyway.

Good luck!

JAANDGC · #**115** 05/21/2007, 12:45 PM

PrangeWay
I'm not saying anyone should mod their skimmers. What I'm saying is, if you take the deltec APF600 5" cylinder and 24 inches high rated for 200 plus gallons and cost 814 dollars and the er rc80 5"cylinder and 22 inches high rated for for 80+ gallons and cost 665 dollars. As you can see the design is pretty close but you pay almost 150 dollars more for the deltec (for 2 inches of reaction space, a different pump, and someone idea of a "for this size tank rating" , buy the way anyone want to school me on how there can be that big of a difference. So why would you tell some one to buy the deltec? The name, rating, size, I think you're more likely to run people away for the hobby telling them they have to put a 1000 skimmer on their tank to be sucessfull as apose to telling them they may need to change out some water. Remember there are people out there that don't use skimmers, with great sucess.

klam114 · #**116** 05/21/2007, 12:54 PM

I wouldn't try to convince you to go Deltec, I would go with H&S as they have equivalent models using the same pumps and great performance. The new ER skimmers look like they are copying the current H&S models, so why go with a copy when you can get the original.

To get back to more serious comparison of what JAANDGC is referring to. The H&S A150 has a 6" body and uses exactly the same pump as the Deltec APF600, but unmodified. I've seen both these skimmers on display and performs very well. IMHO, I see a slightly better performance with the H&S skimmer when it comes to these 2 models and I think it partially due to bigger diameter body and slightly taller. Also, no reported problems with the H&S unmodified Aquabee pump. I don't have any doubt that the H&S unit will out perform the ER RC80 and the H&S is $649 and can easily handle any heavy bioload tank from 75g-150g, up to 225g normal.

I agree that there's nothing better than regular water changes, the more often the better. But that doesn't come without a price. In San Francisco, the rates are too outrageous for a gallon of water processed for RO/DI, but the sewage charge that SF charges is double the water charge. And since you don't get a 1 for 1 exchange for RO/DI, it can get really costly. I've seen regular water bills go up from $20/month up $110/month after adding a RO/Di unit for aquarium hobby & drinking. Not to mention the salt mix costs.

sjm817 · #**117** 05/21/2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by klam114
I wouldn't try to convince you to go Deltec, I would go with H&S as they have equivalent models using the same pumps and great performance. The new ER skimmers look like they are copying the current H&S models, so why go with a copy when you can get the original.

It depends on the model. I wouldn't take an RC80 over the A150, but...The $1670 ER RC500 has the same specs as the $2200 H&S A300 3x 1260. $500+ is a good chunk of change.

klam114 · #**118** 05/21/2007, 01:47 PM

100% agreement here, it all depends on the model. I was just addressing the ER-RC80 comment.

SJM817, I saw some of your videos on the BM250, excellent. How do you compare the BM250 to your ER since you've used both.

Fliger, wow, you've used quite a few skimmers. Nice to have that much experience with different models. Do you have any plans on checking out the BM250?

sjm817 · #**119** 05/21/2007, 02:00 PM

I wish I would have done some more "scientific" experiments. My ER RS250 rocked. It pulled out darker skimate than the BM250 does. The BM250 pulls more, lighter skimate. The ER skimmed great from day 1. The ATI took awhile before it broke in and started working well, so it is kind of hard to compare. The ER build quality is better.

kdblove_99 · #**120** 05/21/2007, 02:04 PM

Oh yeah,

I definetly like the ER skim from the pics

klam114 · #**121** 05/21/2007, 02:16 PM

SJM, which do you like better? Also, which one did you end up keeping since you had both?

Here's what my local dealer gets on his BM200 and it's the same quality skimmate that he got with the Deltec APF600 that was on the same tank earlier, but larger quantity with the BM200. The 2nd photo was taken a couple of weeks ago when he redecorate that same tank and the BM200 caught everything. I didn't have the bioload that he has, but my skimmate looked black, just less in quantity.

sjm817 · #**122** 05/21/2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by klam114
SJM, which do you like better? Also, which one did you end up keeping since you had both?

Do I have to choose? I like both of them. I kept the ATI since I had a buyer for the ER as soon as I bought the ATI. I wanted to try out the BM to see what all the fuss was about. If I had to do it over, I would have kept the ER. The ATI is a good skimmer, but not much if any better than the ER I had.

I dont dose any Kent additives that turn the skimate emerald green, and I feed pretty lightly. My skimate color on the ATI looks typical of what most people get.

It also looks like you are dialing back the air to get a dryer skimate.

klam114 · #**123** 05/21/2007, 02:48 PM

I wasn't and my skimmate was black. Above bottom photo was after feeding, so broke the foamhead. But you can see about 1/2" of dark skimmate, almost looks black in real life. Looking at your photos, I think I would have kept the ER as well. But not sure if the BM250 is collecting the same amount of waste, just more water with it.

But my local dealer is dialing the BM200 back because it is on a 100g tank. He trimmed his mesh down and also dial back the air to adjust the skimmer to match the smaller tank. His opinion is the BM200 oversized for 100g tank so he could tune down just a little bit and get the same quality skimmate as the Deltec, but just twice the amount.

sjm817 · #**124** 05/21/2007, 03:00 PM

Dont know. Most pics I've seen here of ATI BM skimate looks very much like mine. Not that skimming wet is a bad thing.

How do you like the BM200 compared to your A150?

gtrestoration · #**125** 05/21/2007, 03:33 PM

I've run two different models of ASM's. They both skimmed fine out of the box. No mods, no hassle. Not a work of art like my BK 300 for sure but the systems the ASM's were used on didn't need that kind of scum sucking. I've taken to cycling the BK300 off for 3 hours twice a day in a 300g SPS frag system.

SteveU