DIY Red Dragon Pumps, gathering ideas. - Page 19

Creetin · #**451** 05/08/2007, 10:21 PM

Where do ya getthe metala from? This thread is the first i have heard of it.

smjtkj · #**452** 05/08/2007, 11:02 PM

Aquatic eco has it.

Creetin · #**453** 05/09/2007, 02:53 PM

Thanks well i got the impeller in, and tried a quick test. Its not impressing me so far. I am only getting 40 scfh out of it.
I am going to reduce the air line size and see what that does if anything, But i am using half inch right now.

dudedudedude · #**454** 05/09/2007, 03:05 PM

You may need a larger shroud for the 5000 because the stock shroud i think is a lot smaller than the one on your larger pump. Tell me if I am wrong.

dudedudedude · #**455** 05/09/2007, 03:08 PM

also, 40 scfh is aournd that output of a bubble master pump which does not use anything close to 1/2 inch tubing. I am a novice in these mods but it is possible that the air tubig you just used is large enough to perhaps have a negative effect. Please update when you get the kill o watt becuase if it is 40 scfh but less than 30 watts, that would be perfect for smaller size skimmers.

captain7359 · #**456** 05/09/2007, 03:18 PM

Has anyone tried making a more true pump impeller with metala or one of the pf materials. by making a metala or pf "doughnut" and sandwiching it between two acrylic disks you could turn the metala into the "vanes" of the impeller and actually pull the air/water into the eye of the impeller and through the material. would this cause better shredding of the air as you would be doing more than just using the outer faces of the material to break the air up? could this be more efficient and pull more water and air

Creetin · #**457** 05/09/2007, 03:34 PM

The shroud is plenty big, Its only a titch smaller than the 2905, Butthe 2905 spins 2 times as fast.
I think the airline is too big and not getting the correct jet like the 2905 creates.
I'll do some more work tonight, and report.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudedudedude
You may need a larger shroud for the 5000 because the stock shroud i think is a lot smaller than the one on your larger pump. Tell me if I am wrong.

dudedudedude · #**458** 05/09/2007, 04:52 PM

Here is the chalange for electricians looking at this thread. Would it be possible to make a external circiut that a pump like the 5000 could plug into in which you could increase the AC frequency to get a pump with a speed more like the 2905?

hahnmeister · #**459** 05/09/2007, 04:59 PM

The cost of such a device (they do exist) would surpass the cost of merely buying the pump with the higher speed.

dudedudedude · #**460** 05/09/2007, 05:25 PM

I know variable frequency controllers exist for industry, and they are several hundred used. However, I have seen some simple dc to ac converter schematics in which according to a friend the frequence could be changed by changeing two resisters and capacitors. Thus you could convert to DC, then run the DC to AC converter circiut. The adjustments to this circiut are just beyond my level of electroncis understanding. I guess what I am saying is that the industrial variable frequency converters would be overkill, but a simpler one could be made.

dudedudedude · #**461** 05/09/2007, 05:34 PM

Does anyone know from experience or speaking to Hagan which pumps have a faster than stadard pump speed?

Creetin · #**462** 05/09/2007, 08:26 PM

Still nothing 40 scfh. Not impressive for a 1500 gph pump.
I tried everything to get more but thats it i am afraid of.
The 2905 is the champion of the 2 by a long shot. Maybe someone with a better understanding with skimmer pumps can do better than i, But i am tapped out of idea's.

Creetin · #**463** 05/09/2007, 08:28 PM

It still is a great pump, Quiet as hell, and turns over ALOT of water. Great for circ pumps!!

kroe · #**464** 05/09/2007, 10:02 PM

Creetin: What impeller did you substitute into the 5000?

Still no clue what the wattage is? If it does 40 scfh at 40 or less watts then I am impressed. I doubt the wattage would be more than cut in half however...

At 40 scfh are you getting lots of water flow, or is the air/water ratio good?

Creetin · #**465** 05/09/2007, 10:29 PM

Too much waterflow! It would blow the cups off any skimmer thats not 4 feet tall. I will try restricting the flow more but the little tests i did it reduced scfh as well.

Now someone with more skills than i with this may get more out of it as i am just a rookie in modding pumps.
I got the replacement 5000 impeller, I didnt know atthe time when i orderd that the maxflows were stainless, and even then i knew i was just going to cut off the fan anyways.
I don't have my killowatt yet as i saved 10bucks getting it off ebay and its sent snail mail. I'll post the watts when it gets here. It was shipped from florida monday so i hope its here by the weekend. I wish i had a flow meter as well because if i was to guess i am still getting close to what the pumps are designed for.

kroe · #**466** 05/09/2007, 10:55 PM

What are you using for a venturi?

I would use a 1/2" pvc piece about 1" long stuffed inside a 2.5" long piece of 1" PVC (might need a 3/4" piece of PVC in the middle to make the transition). Grind the transition from 1" to 1/2" so it is smooth on both sides with a dremel. You want a 1" to 1/2" then back out to 1" transition. The air line should go in on the pump side on the slope from 1/2" back out to 1".

If you are getting too much water and not enough air that makes me think your venturi is not right.

I am not ready to give up on the 5000 yet.

Wattage will likely be high if you are still moving lots of water.

Creetin · #**467** 05/09/2007, 11:54 PM

Well i just took a2 inch long piece of 3/4 inch pvc and drilled a 1/2 inch hole on an 30 to 45 degree angle to the pump and cut a 90 degree angle in the 3/8ths vinyl tubing and ran that in at an angle to where the side to where the pump was going to be. Then i placed it on, and fired her up. I got 60+ scfh with short bursts of 80 scfh.
I thought of making it a little bit easier for the air to get in via a Y rather a T. Dunno if that makes sense but it got me 20+ more scfh. I tried a venturi similar to your description, But it just choked out the pump too much. Maybe i did it wrong, Its late and i am off to bed for now, But 60 scfh i can live with and the flow was cut down alot. No where near what it was.

hahnmeister · #**468** 05/10/2007, 12:17 AM

60-80 was what I was predicting... actually, Ill admit... more about 60... but if 80 is sustainable, that would be great. A larger meshwheel might be in order...

My replacement impeller should be here any day now.

john f · #**469** 05/10/2007, 05:10 AM

Sounds like a venturi problem for sure.
I had the same issues with the prototype needlewheel darts.
A proper venturi will work wonders for you.

Here : http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...etail/iid/9841

is a large one you could adapt to 1.25"

John

Creetin · #**470** 05/10/2007, 08:07 AM

I had a large meshwhele on there at first but it kept shutting down the pump. I timmed it back to the disk and it ran fine after that. I dunno if it was because of the mesh was expanding while spinning. I am thinking that was the case.

smjtkj · #**471** 05/10/2007, 09:20 AM

Creetin, leave the diameter the same but add 1 layer at a time until the pump is maxxed out. I ended up with 6 layers.

Mike

Creetin · #**472** 05/10/2007, 10:55 AM

I'll have to look into that, I was put on honeydo priority. I am bannished to get the house ready and set up a party for all the fam, So i'll be out of this till next week.

douggiestyle · #**473** 05/10/2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by captain7359
Has anyone tried making a more true pump impeller with metala or one of the pf materials. by making a metala or pf "doughnut" and sandwiching it between two acrylic disks you could turn the metala into the "vanes" of the impeller and actually pull the air/water into the eye of the impeller and through the material. would this cause better shredding of the air as you would be doing more than just using the outer faces of the material to break the air up? could this be more efficient and pull more water and air

already been there. see back to the 4-5 page of this thread. no on seems interested. though i believe that is what red dragon is doing on there mesh wheel. but its only a guess. they for sure do something similar to their needle wheels. notice the center of the needle wheel its desiged to do the same thing.

im in the process of modding this impeller.

[img]//i169.photobucket.com/albums/u213/douggiestyle/Picture091.jpg[/img]

dudedudedude · #**474** 05/10/2007, 11:08 AM

So the Matala Stuff is too thick, but perhaps a denser version of P4 could be made. I was thinking that 8 layer of enkanamt cut to the desired radius of the final impeller could be placed and pressed to 1/4 inch think in a metal mold and then subjected to heat to the point that all the layers stick to each other and retain the same shape and thickness. Essentially, it would be likes Klaus's metal loop disk but made of nylon. Any opionions on whether this would work or not?

Creetin · #**475** 05/10/2007, 01:51 PM

Its 58 watts at 60 scfh, I did get the meter today. I'll do a quick test on the 2905 in a bit.
A flow meter would come in handy though.