DIY Red Dragon Pumps, gathering ideas. - Page 18

Creetin · #**426** 05/06/2007, 08:15 PM

Well i see the 5000 and 7000 the best fit for skimmer pumps IMO.
The 2905 well is a tad deeper and a titch wider but not that much of a differance. JMO It may spin faster and have more torq than the 5-7000's so there is a slight advantage there IMO.
I will see when i get the new impeller and test the 5000.
I am all done testing the 2905 and have a new disk made with 5 layers of mesh with it larger in diameter as well.
There should be an improvement, But not as drastic as i would hope a pump with nearly double the output would have. JMO
I get 90 scfh with 3 layers of the original mesh pad i made on the garbage can test. So off to the bigger diam mesh and more layers after i get the meter in so i can test the watts and PF.

The 2905 is just going to be a recirc pump for me anyways, so i had no intentions of making a skimmer pump out of it, But since my 5000 is down i thought why not.

kroe · #**427** 05/07/2007, 09:50 PM

I emailed hagen about the 5000. I want a smaller red dragon equivalent pump, pushing about 60 scfh at as little wattage as possible. I asked if any of the max-flo impellers with the stainless instead of brass would fit the 5000.

Got two useful pieces of info:

1.) They confirmed that max-flo impellers are stainless and reef safe.

2.) They told me that with modification the max-flo "PT-461" impeller will fit the 5000. Specifically - quoting from hagen "It is possible to modify the 'PT-461 MaxFlo 7500 impeller' by hand guided grinding to make it fit into PowerJet 5000." I have no idea what they mean by "hand guided grinding", but doesn't sound too hard. I ordered a 5000 pump off ebay for $78 shipped, and a PT-461 impeller for $42 shipped, so if all goes well I'll have me a $120 red dragon clone.

I'll be using either enkemat or matala, whichever works better.

Anyone know the shaft diameter for these? I'd like to order some titanium rod for the shaft.

kroe · #**428** 05/07/2007, 09:56 PM

What's the max air intake for an 8"x24" reaction chamber?

smjtkj · #**429** 05/07/2007, 09:56 PM

Kroe, The ceramic shaft is attached to the magnet. It doesn't come out as for as I can tell. I really don't see why the ceramic wouldn't work anyway.

hahnmeister · #**430** 05/07/2007, 10:21 PM

kroe, the max you would want for an 8" diamter pipe would be 1800lph, or about 63 lph.

kroe · #**431** 05/07/2007, 10:32 PM

hahn: What scfh do you think I am going to see with the 5000? I cant figure out what red dragon that equates (roughly) to.

Thanks

kroe · #**432** 05/07/2007, 10:35 PM

smjtkj: I'll run the ceramic for now (especially if it's pressed or glued into the magnet), I just figured that if RE bothers to replace them maybe I should too. Ti rod is not all that expensive (I bought $70 worth of 6al/4v Ti to do mj mods, have made about 50 and still have plenty left).

hahnmeister · #**433** 05/07/2007, 10:39 PM

RE also runs them at a different torque and speed (faster and more Im betting), two things that we arent. I have a feeling those two reasons are why they need the Ti shaft and anti-lime line... the extra torque could crack a ceramic shaft, and the extra speed creates more heat... two things we may not have to worry about at all.

As for the 5000... Ill know later this week. Im guessing 2000 lph.

dudedudedude · #**434** 05/07/2007, 11:10 PM

Well I got my Matala samples today. It is not too promising. The diamters that they advertise for the threads have to be wrong. The finest grade Matala is about eqaul in diameter to P5. Also, I have a feeling that this material will probably shred appart. It looks like for a RD mesh wheel it will have to be P4/P5. Anything thinner will most likely have to be a metel mesh like Klaus's

kroe · #**435** 05/08/2007, 08:53 AM

dudedudedude: are you going to try the matala and see if your gut is right?

Creetin · #**436** 05/08/2007, 09:02 AM

I did get a 7-8 scfh improvement moving the venturi closer to the pump inlet. I had it on backwards. LOL So 97 to 98 scfh in 30 inches of head on a garbage can is not too shabby.
Still waiting on my stupid impeller for the 5000. I had to wait till they picked up the wrong one for AZponds to ship out a new one.
meter should be here soon too. Can't wait to see how many watts its pulling. The 2905 is too powerfull for a skimmer as it can handle too much head pressure. If i had the pump sitting upright it would shoot water out of the garbage can.

Creetin · #**437** 05/08/2007, 09:33 AM

Heres another short vid, Please excuse the mess in the basement as i am reworking some equipment in my tank room.

I should dump some skimmer nog in there to see what it does.
Heres the short vid.

Creetin · #**438** 05/08/2007, 09:34 AM

BTW its no where near that loud. This camer will pick up an ant fart, and make it seem loud. LOL

Horace · #**439** 05/08/2007, 09:52 AM

Holy turbulance!!!! You would need a freggin massive skimmer for a pump like that. A bubble plate would be a must as well I am sure.

RichConley · #**440** 05/08/2007, 01:13 PM

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone have any links for numbers for the smaller pumps? I've skimmed throught he thread, but must have missed it. I dont think I have any need of 100scfh,but greater efficiency for smaller pumps would definitely be nice.

Creetin · #**441** 05/08/2007, 01:18 PM

Here's a vendor that sells laguna, The smallest they have is the 3000. I believe hahn has stated that you could get smaller than that in aquaclear's name. (Same pumps) Not sure on that though and or thier model #'s

http://www.azponds.com/subpumps.htm

mavgi · #**442** 05/08/2007, 01:24 PM

Rich , the 2000 rated :926 Gallon i think it will be better for your skimmer size

Creetin · #**443** 05/08/2007, 01:33 PM

Heres from hagen/laguna
http://www.hagen.com/pdf/ponds/Utility_Pump_Guide.pdf

RichConley · #**444** 05/08/2007, 01:43 PM

Do we have any (scfh/lph) numbers for the smaller pumps?

Is the Pt-324 (400gph @ 19w) usable? Is it the same as an aquaclear 401?

All this tweaking of the bigger pumps is awesome, but not all that useful for most of us.

hahnmeister · #**445** 05/08/2007, 04:38 PM

The PT-324 is really Hagens old Hi-Spec 1000-4000 powerhead line. I would NOT suggest it for modding (I have the 3000 and 4000 and can post pics if you want to show you why its not a good pump to mod)... its a different line all together with a different impeller setup/assembly. I would stear you to the 802 instead... thats in my 'pimp my AC802' thread... up to 18scfh, but you have to make a custom volute out of a 2" PVC coupling... easy enough to do, and even easier to mesh mod the impeller really (fixed/open end shaft).

If you want a smaller pump, I would do the Hagen 901/110 (same as Laguna 900 I believe). This pump should do about the same as an eheim needlewheel in all respects unless you do the custom volute... then more.

RichConley · #**446** 05/08/2007, 05:03 PM

Hahn, I guess my real question, is how do I tell whether its a usable pump just looking at the model number?

Is it the Powerjet, powerjet free flow, maxflow, what are we talking here?

hahnmeister · #**447** 05/08/2007, 05:34 PM

You cant just by the model number really, you have to check the equipment manuals at hagen.com and make sure its part of the same line as the pumps we are using here (Max-Flo/PowerJet 900+). You know, there is a 600 model... its like a 900 but only 600gph. Thats alot smaller...

kroe · #**448** 05/08/2007, 09:38 PM

Hrm... I have a 5000 on the way along with a max-flo impeller to make it reef safe, but am thinking this is going to be waaaaay too much for my 8" x 24" modified Reef Octopus NW-200.

Should I have gone with the max-flo 900 instead as my gut initially told me? Hahn made me do it by posting how much bigger the volute on the 5000 is with only a few more watts. I know I'll have a more efficient pump scfh/watt wise... but is this thing going to make my skimmer explode or something?

dudedudedude · #**449** 05/08/2007, 09:42 PM

kroe,
I believe that the 5000 will be able to be modified with a smaller impeller, larger volute to get a pump with less watts and less air and water for a smaller skimmer, at least I hope so. So I wouldnt count the 5000 out yet.

kroe · #**450** 05/08/2007, 09:56 PM

It's on the way, so I am absolutely going to try it... just nervous that I am going to end up with a 100 scfh @ 85w pump, which for what I am using it for will be less useful than my 45 scfh @ 65w OTP-3000.

BTW... I got my matala samples today, and my initial impression is mixed. Two of the four have no hope - way too big. The other two - a flexible very dense, fine black mesh looks like it might work IF both sides of the sheet are left on. If you cut it in half it will be super stringy and will likely fall apart. You'd have to zip-tie it very tightly to squeeze it into most volutes leaving both sides on. I would try it, but don't want to waste it on my OTP-3000 when the laguna is on the way. Another of the samples is dense, stiff blue plastic. Much thicker strands than the PF4, but might work well if you squeeze it together tightly.

Anyone with an air meter and kill-a-watt try this stuff yet?