do they come tougher than this for a 240?

mattsilvester · #1 05/02/2007, 10:22 AM

Ok guys,

as an adendum to a previous post, if I were to set up my new 240 as a FOWLR, I was thinking of a list of real heavy hitters that are all know for being mean as hell - incidentally, they are some of my favourites:

From the Trigger Family - Clown Trigger

Representing the Wrasse - Lunare wrasse

From the tangs - Soahl Tang

Grouper - Either Louti or Miniata

And last but not least, Angelfish - Either the King or Queen (H. Passer or H.Ciliaris).

What do you guys think? Thoughts, comments, suggestions from those with experience - Would like something blue in there too - maybe a powder blue?

Cheers,

Matt

Deacon · #2 05/02/2007, 02:08 PM

yikes, its gonna be like the Middle East in that tank.

espo72 · #3 05/02/2007, 03:55 PM

I used to have a tank like that...the guys at my LFS called it Alcatraz.

mattsilvester · #4 05/02/2007, 04:20 PM

I take it thats two votes against the idea then :-(

It's why I am leaning more toward my "plan B" really which is a mixed fish & reef set up......

In my opinion / limited experience big fish will get mean ..... two big mean fish will fight...... as will 3, 4, 5. But having said this, í have no direct experience with keeping big fish for any longer than a few years.... i.e. angel from 2 to 6"........ but I just fail to see the logic. However, seeing as I am not all knowing all seeing and all wise, I figured that since loads of people out there go on about keeping combinations of fish not at all unsimilar to what I describe then maybe my intuition is wrong........

Cheers,

Matt

virginiabreeze6 · #5 05/02/2007, 04:33 PM

I'm for the first option........But that is just my opinion......

purebullet417 · #6 05/02/2007, 08:48 PM

i would love to see the tank

Deacon · #7 05/03/2007, 04:34 PM

well, I didn't say I actually vote against it. Those are all very cool fish. It's just that the possibility for conflict is high.....which you already knew.

justinl · #8 05/03/2007, 04:44 PM

mmm... im gonna go ahead and actually vote against this idea. Maybe if you had a really huge tank... like 500gal or so. but these fish need their space. it's like taking the biggest meanest dude from several different gangs and locking them all up in one room. You're bound to get plenty of fighting and very likely a few dead people (fish in your case). Is that good for the fish? absolutely not.

don't get me wrong, it really is a cool idea, but just not one that is very... feasible, due to aggresion. besides, can you imagine sticking your hand into that melee to do maintenance?

sublime250 · #9 05/03/2007, 07:15 PM

I think the wrasse may be made dinner by that grouper

mattsilvester · #10 05/04/2007, 04:56 AM

Thanks folks,

sublime - to be honest I would be more concerned for the grouper - they are maniacs........ far too quick, and far too smart to become a groupers lunch....... I'd be more worried about the grouper getting picked at by the wrasse - they are easily as mean as a soahl, but twice as quick and infinitely more manouverable!

tb27272 · #11 05/04/2007, 05:16 AM

It is worth a try, my 180 has housed a niger trigger, a humahuma trigger, a lunar wrasse, a spotted hawk, a yellow tang, a maroon clown, a porcupine puffer, a blue damsel(to be honest, he was put in as food to the trigger, who doesn't seem to know he is to eat live fish, so he cleans up the mess of the other eater), a a huge volitan for over a year, never had a fight, the lion will run off the triggers occasionly at dinner time, the lunar plays a lazy game of chase with the damsel once and a while. Of all the odd things, look at my pics, the lion and small maroon sleep beside one another.

luv951 · #12 05/04/2007, 10:21 AM

Once again, nature shows us how she works things out. The clown is buddying up to the lion since there are no anenomes to be freinds with. VERY cool!

And I do realize the obviousness of that statment ; )

clekchau · #13 05/04/2007, 10:53 AM

i think it would be awesome, just don't buy the fish too big

nickiwit · #14 05/04/2007, 10:53 PM

I say go for it. They can all hold their own.

espo72 · #15 05/05/2007, 12:41 AM

Here's what could happen....boy I took a lot of heat when I put these pics up for the first time!

justinl · #16 05/05/2007, 01:47 AM

wow... those are some intense pics.

luv951, "nature" is thrown out the window once the fish go in the tank. what we have is a very unnatural puddle of water. lol i sound like a huge hippocrite don't i? my point is that people have made mistakes in the past and ended up with dead fish. the experiments have been done and we know the results. I don't see the point in running the experiments again at the cost of the lives of fish (and cash) in the hope thatwe will get the offchance one in a million screw up where everything ends up fine and alive. jmo im all for experimenting with our tanks, but there is a limit.

I like Triggers · #17 05/05/2007, 02:35 AM

If you get those fish small, in the 4-5" range, im sure you will have success for quite some time. Those all get too big for a 240 in the long run and you can remove them 1 at a time in the years to come when they outgrow it.

PuffersKick · #18 05/08/2007, 04:09 PM

Sounds like my tank!

Clown Trigger
Picasso Trigger
Hawaiian Black Trigger
Passer Angel (the meanest of the bunch BY FAR!)
S&S Puffer
Harlequin Tusk
Yellow Tang
Foxface Lo
Fuzzy Dwarf Lion

My lunare wrasse that I had for over 3 years just died this morning

So I'm looking for a replacement wrasse to add back into this mix!

mattsilvester · #19 05/08/2007, 04:35 PM

thanks for all the input guys - its great! Still torn between this and a nice easy going tank. In one breath, I really want the fish I've listed above - in the other breath, I would really hate to end up with world war 3, its so stressful for both me and the fish!

Keep the comments comming ;-)

Cheers,

Matt

DamnPepShrimp · #20 05/09/2007, 02:26 PM

I say go for it. Which angel were you planning on adding? Queens can get aggressive as they get older, its hard to say, each fish is different. My brother had a passer that was killed by a powder blue tang, both equal in size! So it all depends on which one you get. I'd get the sohal last though, your stocking order and size will play a big part in how things go.

mattsilvester · #21 05/09/2007, 02:50 PM

Well if I go for it, I would probably go for the queen. I know they have a reputation for being aggressive when large, but I would be getting either a large juv. or a small adult. I believe the passer to be aggressive in the extreme from the outset.

I'd probably go for the clown trigger first. I know he has the potential to be mean and nasty etc, but he would also be a sitting a sitting duck for the attentions of an angel or tang. I know they can get very territorial when large, but at 3-4" they tend not to be so mean.

Second would be either the grouper or the wrasse. The grouper is going to need to be pretty small, and I'll probably go for the miniata - research puts them a bit more outgoing, a bit less aggressive, and ultimately alot smaller. So probably the grouper next and maybe the wrasse at the same time - again, small but not so small that he'll be gulped down by the grouper - the wrasse will initally outgrow the grouper anyway.

Next would come the tang(s) and the angel. Quite possible the angel would be next. At 3-4" she'd be well able to hold her own, but not outright big enough to demolish a sohal or powder blue.

Last but not least would come the double tang combo - simulataneous introduction, slightly bigger powderblue, both smaller than the queen. They would come under fire initally from the queen and wrasse, but they are both tough cookies and shuld be able to handle it - and introducing them together will mean (hopefully) that any territorial attacks would be spread 50-50.

All round, I reckon it would work in the short to medium term..... I would worry about when they start hitting the 6-8" mark. There are a few people that I know of who have got away with similar combo's but they are as many, if not more people that hve not. The only fish in the mix that I could "live without" would be the grouper, and while that would substantially decrease the bioload, it would do little for the aggression stakes....... still the removal of the grouper and the inclusion of a dozen damsels would provide some good "dither" fish an help disipate aggression.

Here is a pic of the potential domain for this lot....... its still cooking away, nitrite at 0.1ppm now, nearly there, thank goodness.

clekchau · #22 05/10/2007, 11:15 AM

i would NOT recommend a powder blue in that mix, ich magnet get the sohal only

Grevious · #23 05/10/2007, 05:01 PM

When I had my 300 gallon, I had an 8" Sohal, 6" King Passer, 8-9" Lunare Wrasse, Miniatus Grouper (along with a number of other large angels) and had success (3 years) with that bunch. Just left hiding places and made sure they all had plenty to eat.

I say go ahead with your original plan.

clekchau · #24 05/10/2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grevious
When I had my 300 gallon, I had an 8" Sohal, 6" King Passer, 8-9" Lunare Wrasse, Miniatus Grouper (along with a number of other large angels) and had success (3 years) with that bunch. Just left hiding places and made sure they all had plenty to eat.

I say go ahead with your original plan.

any pics?

tcmike64 · #25 05/16/2007, 08:24 PM

DEF go for it, that will be nice, I have my 275 filled to the MAX and is a very aggresive setup, has constant movement in every area and is VERY entertaining, my tank is as follows:

15" Lionfish
12" (Picus) Spotted Sweetlips
10" Harlequin Tusk
9" Black Dog Face Puffer
9' Porcupine Puffer
9" Red Sea Parrotfish (not sure of the exact name, but it's very colorful with green, red and blue)

Angels: 14" French (3rd in charge)
13" Blue face (now 2nd)
8" Chrysurus
7" Passer (just added yesterday)

Triggers: 8" Fuscus (and growing)
6" clown
5" Picasso (for 4 years, has never really grown much)
9" Cross Hatch M

Tangs: 13" Red Sea Sailfin (ruler)
8" Blue Hippo (for 4 years, since 2")
5" Purple (for 3 years, has never really grown much)
9" Power Blue

(all tangs except the PB are about to come out, the blue hippo and purple have HLEE and I want to add a little more color so i am going to take out the sailfin and get either a Sohal or a Clown Tang, not sure, and possibly one or 2 others)

Tank is doing great, a little aggresion here and there but that is to be expected. Good luck