Iwaki pressure question

[god910]

So, based on the purple line of the graph you posted earlier jd, With "perfect" flow, the pump would flow roughly 390 G/hr at the 12' I'm suspecting it. Now, that's measured from the basement floor to the top of the tank. I'm sure I'll have the sump on a table, but this is a worst case scenario. The way my setup is done currently, is It's gone some weird rounded tube (I think it's originally used for plumbing traps or something, it's over the side, the tank is not drilled for a return line.) It's all store bought PVC (Lowe's) and 1/2" I'm obvioulsy going to be changing all that and possibly going to a upper manifold setup, unless it would restrict it too much.

I can position the pump directly under the tank, which would mean the only obsticle to overcome would be the the line making the short turn back into the tank. (The tank is ~3" from the wall.) So, flex is not really an option I can take pics if it would help give you an idea of what I'm going to have to overcome.

Thanks all for your help so far. I'm liking the idea of moving everything into the basement, I just need to work through some details.

[jdieck]

Sorry, Double post

[jdieck]

Basically yes at 12 feet the flow will be 6.7 gal/min or around 400 gal/hr.
Now if what you refer to are 12 feet height only to that you need to add the head created by the pipe and fittings.

As an example the 30 RX using 11/4" dia pipe with two 90 deg elbows (No valves no unions) and stright up (assume 0.5 ft of horizontal pipe. It will give you about 290 gal/hr

As a reference the 40RT will give you about 600 gal/hr with the same setup and the 55 RT will give you about 850 gal /hr

If you tank is a 75 gal and your overflow can handle it. I will suggest using a 40 RT rather than the 30.
If you want to install some unions and have some additional flexibility with flow for a chiller or UV etc in the return then the 55 RT will be my choice.

Because you already have the 30 XT you do not loose anything with trying it. It will be easy to upgrade to a larger pump later on if you feel the flow is just too small.

[god910]

You... are... the man! Yeah, I already have the 30 and to be horribly honest, I'd be surprised if my tank is getting 200 now. I'm using a Cap30 and it's rated at like 450 or so at 0 head. I'm running a crimped end 1/2 pvc, and honestly, the pump is beat. I'm sure I'm not getting half what the 30 would provide. And like I said, my 210 will be plumbed later on, and the pump will have to be huge. (Think about ~30 ft of total length with 13 ft. of vert.) Thanks a ton!

[jdieck]

That will be simple. For the 210 using 11/2" dia pipe (with a 2" pipe inlet) you will do well with the 100 RLT which will give you about 1500 to 1600 gph.

[god910]

Okay, jd, I'm going to rehash this, with a possibly stupid question. It just hit me that we could be thinking on 2 different levels when it comes to "feet of water" I had this epiphany the other day when working on a car. The "feet of water" we're using to find head pressure... is that just a measurement of pressure? I've dealt in other forms obviously (Inches of Mercury, inches of water, etc.) but was in awe at how you could figure feet of water out of linear pipe, rise, runs, and size. Now I think I understand. Due to a lack of knowledge on my part, the pump in the basement idea won't work with what I have, and am considering putting it under the stand, but wanted to see how far back I could choke it and not damamge it. Can I just convert feet of water to PSI and install a gauge and if I exceed the pressure rating of the pump, it'll be a failure, but it'll be a $10 failure, and I'm bored so it'd be worth a try. Thanks again for your help!

[jdieck]

Originally posted by god910
Okay, jd, I'm going to rehash this, with a possibly stupid question. It just hit me that we could be thinking on 2 different levels when it comes to "feet of water" I had this epiphany the other day when working on a car. The "feet of water" we're using to find head pressure... is that just a measurement of pressure? I've dealt in other forms obviously (Inches of Mercury, inches of water, etc.) but was in awe at how you could figure feet of water out of linear pipe, rise, runs, and size. Now I think I understand. Due to a lack of knowledge on my part, the pump in the basement idea won't work with what I have, and am considering putting it under the stand, but wanted to see how far back I could choke it and not damamge it. Can I just convert feet of water to PSI and install a gauge and if I exceed the pressure rating of the pump, it'll be a failure, but it'll be a $10 failure, and I'm bored so it'd be worth a try. Thanks again for your help!

Let me first understand what you were trying to do and what are you trying to do now.

if I understand well yopu were trying to use an Iwaki 30 RXT to pump water from the basement to the first floor trough a pipe 1/2" in diameter.
Surely that did not work given the fact that the pump is more suitable for high flow low head and the small diameter of the pipe is creating a lot of head (pressure drop). The pump maximum head is about 14.8 ft and just on vertical rise without accounting for friction losses on such a small diameter pipe you already had 12 ft.

Now what wyou are saying is that you want to use the 30 RXT but from the stand rather than the basement.

First the pump will not get damaged if you restrict the output, you might be wasting a bit of power as the pump will not run at full efficiency if restricted too much but the pump shall be able to handle up to close to the maximum head capacity.
Rather than restric some people prefer to return part of the flow back to the sump by using a T and diverting it back but unless you require very little flow into the tank that is not really necessary.
What is the capacity of your tank overflow? Is it restricted by the overflow itself or by the drain line? What is the diameter of your drain line?
Can you give mo some additional data on the setup you are trying to put together?
In general for an Iwaki 30 RXT my recomendation will be to use a minimum of 1-1/4" diameter pipe at the inlet (1-1/2" optimal) and a minimum of 1" at the outlet from the pump to the tank return line. Assuming that from the surface of the sump water to the surface of the tank water you will have a vertical of 5 feet plus some elbows and such you might be running between 6 and 8 ft head pressure which will give you a flow between 780 and 900 gph. You can restrict the ouput down to 250 gph without any problem. No need for gauges or complicated setups. just a gool 'ol ball or gate valve at the pump discharge.
I have tried to state my assumptions so please let me know if I am assuming wrong so a better assesment can be done.

[god910]

I'm still laughing right now, not at you, just at the thought of running a 30 RLXT on a 1/2" line. It'd be ****ed. hahahaha

No, I never hooked anything up, just mentally thus far. You're about 90% on my thinking though.

I can recirc, that's not a big deal, but it's only a 29g sump with a 6" DSB, and macro prop tank, and it's un-baffled, I can baffle it no big deal, and am actually toying with the idea of picking up a new 29 and starting over. I'm sure the DSB could use a replacement, as it's been running for who knows how long (came with the setup) I just don't want to create any problems for my macro (currently growing some Chaeto, bubble caulerpa, and blade) if this won't be a problem. I even have a UV Sterilizer sitting in the stand not running because I don't have any extra powerheads to run it, this would be one good use of recirc.

Capacity of tank overflow is a very good question, one that maybe you can help me with. I believe my setup is restricted by the overflow it'self more than the drain line. The overflow is simply a 90* that's 1" x 3/4" through the bulkhead, to a 3/4" line about 2" long, into a "T" (3/4" and 1" legs) then a 1"x 4" long rise (stand pipe) on the bottom of the "T" it's 1" pipe and 2 1" 45's. Then booyah, you're in the sump. I'm not sure and have not tested nor played with the capacity of this overflow, but am sure it's restricted by the bulkhead. How much can this flow do you think/know?

Setup I'm going for:

Drilling the new sump for the 30 RLXT, it has 1" inlet and 1" out, but I'll drill and setup whatever sizes you think is best. (I just talked to my local shop owner and he has a 29g there I can drill and even has a 1 1/2" bulkhead for me.) Then going up about 2" from the pump: Then a union, maybe a union with a valve if I can find one, and a "T" after that. A ball valve on the "T" for recirc, (maybe more than one outlet, I'm not sure on the max cap. of the UV sterilizer)

After that 2 45's to get behind the tank, then 2 90's to get back in the water. Total vert. is 49" from the stand bottom to the top edge of the tank.

Also, what would you suggest I do with the outlet? I'm basically going to be running a 1" line over the edge then? (The tank is NOT drilled for return, I'd love to change it, but again, we bought it up and running, full of sand and water. )


*Thanks Z-man07 for the pic*
I could run one of these fella's to give me some diverse flow, but haven't put much thought into not pumping 700 GPH of water into the tank, and pointing it at one spot.

Any input you can give would be awesome!