Bubble king 400 ext. VS Deltec AP 1004

Daniel_ber · #1 02/18/2007, 04:10 PM

(I have a friend who is not a member here on RC, so I am asking this question on his behalf)

Which skimmer do you guys think I should use for a normal - high stocked 2100L system, and why?
Bubble king 400 - external, or Deltec AP 1004 (which I would feed with a Red dragon pump who is used for the Bubble king skimmers, and gives an output of 3000L/h, assuming that it is "possible")?

Please do NOT base your answer on the price, and only the skimmers quality etc. Imagine that the price is not an issue...

Thanks in advance and
Best Regards / Daniel

Note: 4.5 litres = 1 (Imperial) Gallon

McCrary · #2 02/18/2007, 04:23 PM

If price is not an issue, BubbleKing is going to be an awesome skimmer for a 500 gallon. Deltec makes a very good skimmer, but the quality isn't on par with a BK.

dav99 · #3 02/19/2007, 05:47 AM

Im thinking the same ap1004 or bk ext 400 . I dont get it how BK is better and only have 1 pump and deltec have 4 eheim pumps....

Thanks

David

Daniel_ber · #4 02/19/2007, 08:07 AM

The thing is that the Bubble King uses a titanium needle wheel which is top notch! And it creats very, very, small bubbles.

But what I dont get is how the BK could still be better if I would use the Red dragon pump with the same titanium needle wheel used for BK, to feed the AP 1004?
The Deltec AP 1004 has a total air intake of 2400l/h, and BK draws in about 2000l/h. The BK 400 is recommended for systems from 1500-4000L, while the AP 1004 is recommended for systems from 4500-6000L.

Is there anyone on RC who has had the both skimmers mentioned above?
I appreciate all the help I can get. I have read almost all sites I could find about these skimmes (the AP 1004, and the BK in general). But it is still very hard to choose one.
For now I think the probability is 60% AP 1004 and 40% BK 400.

Do you guys think that the BK 400 still would out skim the AP 1004 even if the AP 1004 would be feed with the red dragon pump and the titanium needle wheel?

Best Regards / Daniels friend.

dav99 · #5 02/19/2007, 08:10 AM

Daniel: ap1004 with self cleaning head is same price that bk400 external in europe....

Daniel_ber · #6 02/19/2007, 09:17 AM

dav99: you are probably right. But as I mentioned, even if there is a big difference I want to but the skimmer that can skim better. Regardless to the price.

By the way. which skimmer are you leaning to? And why? And how big will your tank/system be?

Best Regards

dav99 · #7 02/19/2007, 09:20 AM

Im thinking about 500 gallons aprox.....is not for my current tank is for a future tank......... And price here does matter but i want to buy 1 skimmer in my life that can be the best.

I was thinking about the ap1004 with self cleaning head.....but people recomends the bk400....i know people with the deltec that is very happy but dont know anyone that use the bk.

Daniel_ber · #8 02/19/2007, 09:33 AM

Dont know if you have already seen this thread, but it is definitely worth checking out if you havn´t:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...g&pagenumber=1

Roland Jacques · #9 02/19/2007, 09:38 AM

I don't think the BK is using the titanium impellers anymore.

Maybe i misunder standing this runing the AP 1004 with Red Dragon pump?

Deltec are awesome skimmers, BUT the BK is better for a number of reasons, the pump (air volume, much lower watts, higher air to water ratio) is only one (or 3). The flow pattern insures max interface of air and water, the diffuser minimizes turbulence for max skimmate formation. plus other little reasons. I do like the self cleaning though. For me BK all the way.

sjm817 · #10 02/19/2007, 09:41 AM

He was going to use a RD for a feed pump, not a mod.

Roland Jacques · #11 02/19/2007, 09:43 AM

yeah, i had to reread that, thanks. edited out

Daniel_ber · #12 02/19/2007, 10:22 AM

"the pump (air volume, low watts, high air to water ratio) is only one"

Roland, here is the info I have about the BK 400:
For tanks from 1500 – 4000 L
2.000 L/H air intake and 4000 L/H Water input
Total hight : 80 cm. 68 Watt/h

The Ap 1004 use 4 x 1260 eheims. Which have a total output of 9600 L/H, total air intake: 2400L/H and they draw 65w/pump (but the high wattage is no problem assuming that it is/would be the best skimmer).

Conclusion for AP 1004:
For tanks from 4500 – 6000 L
2.400 L/H air intake and 9600 L/H Water input
Total hight : 98 cm. 260 Watt/h

Assuming that the info I have from the manufacturers are correct, the Deltec has a higher air intake and... well everything (including the negative point: almost 4 times higher energy consumption, which as mentioned dosn´t matter if it is a better skimmer).

The thing that keeps me from ordering the AP 1004 right now is the BK´s rumor, high air to water ratio and the extremly small bubbles that it is able to create.

2-0 in favour of BK. Which makes it that much harder to decide.
Well, I am back to 50% deltec and 50% BK =(

BTW, Roland, the reason for me wanting to use BK`s skimmer pump was becuase I have heard that the single most important thing with the BK skimmer is the modified pump.

You say that they dont use titanium impellers anymore, do you know what they are using now? And if it is better or worse, compared to the titanium one?

Best regards

Daniel_ber · #13 02/19/2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
yeah, i had to reread that, thanks. edited out

I apologize for my bad english.

toothman · #14 02/19/2007, 11:08 AM

I have a BK 300 skimmer and I am very happy with it. I would not purchased a proven product deltec, bubble King etc. and modify it by changing the pump. Each have been tested with that particular pump, why risk altering it.

You will be happy with either skimmer both are in the top category of skimmers. Self cleaning is nice though.

RichConley · #15 02/19/2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
He was going to use a RD for a feed pump, not a mod.

If you use a RD for a feed pump, the skimmer will never work. Too much flow.

sjm817 · #16 02/19/2007, 11:20 AM

Agree. The 1004 needs ~ 800 GPH feed. There are better options for a feed pump.

Daniel_ber · #17 02/19/2007, 11:28 AM

toothman: I wasnt going to modify the skimmer. The Deltec AP 1004 must be supplied with water either by gravity feed from the aquarium or via a separate pump.

richconley: I would use a pump with a output of 3000L/H (which is recommended by deltec, for the AP 1004),
Here is some info about the pump I was thinking of using if I would decide to go with the AP 1004:
Red Dragon pump, used for Bk skimmer´s:
airintake :1000 L/h energyconsuption: 42 Watt waterflow: 3000 L/h

sjm817 · #18 02/19/2007, 11:30 AM

You dont want that type of pump for a feed. You want a pump that only pumps H2O

old salty · #19 02/19/2007, 11:35 AM

Isn't there a crazy long wait for BK skimmers? I think either one would perform as a high end product should.

Daniel_ber · #20 02/19/2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
You dont want that type of pump for a feed. You want a pump that only pumps H2O

I was afraid of that.

What are the disadvantages of using that pump?

sjm817 · #21 02/19/2007, 11:44 AM

I dont know that much about the RD pumps, but I believe there is an "H2O only" version of it. The feed pump just feeds the skimmer H2O, no air bubbles. Making the air bubbles is the Eheim 1260s job. You dont need anything fancy for a feed pump. Just something that gets the right amount of H2O to the skimmer body.

Daniel_ber · #22 02/19/2007, 12:03 PM

"The feed pump just feeds the skimmer H2O, no air bubbles. Making the air bubbles is the Eheim 1260s job."

Well, that was the whole point of choosing the the AP 1004. That is: a very good skimmer from deltec, and also the best part from the BK (the pump). Thanks for your help!

BTW, which skimmer do you think that I should go with?

slovan · #23 02/19/2007, 12:11 PM

Just by reading the other site, I get the impression that not all the kinks are worked out of the RD NW pumps yet. Some people have problems with restarts, pump failure or certain models not creating the bubbles they should be.

I wanted to get a BK this year but I'm putting that thought on hold to see what their new line of skimmers will bring. For now, I'm going to continue using the AP902. At least the Eheims have a proven track record to hold up over time.

sjm817 · #24 02/19/2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daniel_ber
"The feed pump just feeds the skimmer H2O, no air bubbles. Making the air bubbles is the Eheim 1260s job."

Well, that was the whole point of choosing the the AP 1004. That is: a very good skimmer from deltec, and also the best part from the BK (the pump). Thanks for your help!
BTW, which skimmer do you think that I should go with?

Just to be sure I'm clear, the pump you use for the feed is not that important. In the case of the 1004, if it can deliver the needed feed rate, is reliable and quiet (if that matters) that is all it needs to do. I have not used either skimmer, so it would be hard to make a recommendation. I will say that Deletc is well known to have solid products. It will work and work well without a doubt. Like a Mercedes Benz. The BKs have more of a high performance exotic reputation. More like a Ferrari.

If it were my job to sell and support this system, I would go for the proven performer with the solid reputation.

bernie lyons · #25 02/20/2007, 01:29 AM

bernie lyons
Registered Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: mississauga,ontario,can.
Occupation: sales
Posts: 226

skimmers
"Enquiry minds want to know " How does a titanium pinwheel produce smaller bubbles than a plastic pinwheel ?
I believe I read that klaus said that the plastic pinwheel worked slightly better than the titanium . Please varify this .
I have seen the BK300 external skimmer and examined the bubble size and it was not smaller than my H&S skimmers bubble size .
As far as a recommendation for a skimmer for a 500gallon tank well I like the large H&S skimmers and a MTC HSA-3000 dual beckett will easily handle the tank no problem except you'll need an iwaki 70 rlt pump .
bernie lyons

Hobby Experience: 12years
Current Tanks: 450 gallon reef
Interests: reefkeeping