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#1
01/02/2007, 04:00 AM
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I want help, and no it is not psychiatric
I am frustrated with the progress on my tank. I am close to finishing, and am just tired of dealing with the issues I have had for the last week or so, and having to redo stuff.
I am needing to get my house back and my two small tanks migrated into the new tank. I am at my wits end, it was a short line anyway,but enough... I also don't want to worry about my house flooding when I leave to go to the store or wherever, just because I either did something wrong, or forgot something, or just because I am a newbie or whatever... I think all I have left is to finish re-doing the connections to the OM four way, and re connecting the suction / inlet line to the Closed loop, and figuring out my sump setup. I guess I need to focus on the sump. I have three different tanks all glass. Two of them are fifty gallon, one is standard, the other is TALL. I also have a 30 gallon, which is tall as well. I have not really made up my mind as to which tank I was going to use, but since space is a factor, I will go with the thirty. Next I will pickup some glass to install some baffles and pick a design from Malevs site. Not sure which one yet, I have looked and picked and looked and pick, but just cant commit. I will be using a filter sock and a skimmer, and other then that a refugium, that was going to be a separate tank, but since space is an issue, I will just incorporate that into he sump as well. So, I guess I need to finish the sump, but when I finish that, I would really appreciate having someone come by, and help me finish the plumbing, and or give me some tips or just give a a nod of approval or something, to make sure I am ontrack, that I will not have to worry TOO much, and that there is a light at the end of the road... Frustration is not something I deal with well. Actually, o don't deal well with anything other then good stuff. I am willing to reward anyone with the knowledge and gumption to actually stop buy and give me a little guidance and direction. Anyone up for the challenge??? Please? |
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#2
01/02/2007, 04:24 AM
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I would help...but im in similar situation as you except I put a big order for plumbing parts and I got the wrong sizes. Ive now lost 2 prized corals and 2 fish, one which was with me since I started the hobby.
If your setting up a 180g tank, I would definatley be carefull on how you design the sump, you wouldnt want that little thing to overflow. Good Luck
__________________
My whip blacked out so they wonder like Steve-e... |
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#3
01/02/2007, 06:33 AM
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What fittingsdo you need cause I have some extras of some, (and been short on others. I am up to about 10+ trips to HD, luckily they are really close by, (did I say lucky, it is like I shold live there)
BTW: when I went there to show them the defective 1/8th bend that had the hole in it, and ask for my money back for the 3 fittings on that assembly, they werent going to give a a credit, as thet pipe was ued and glued together. I had to explain to them that there is no way to find a defective part until you actully use it, and that they are lucky cause I had to cut out a total of four of those assembles, as they were all on the OM four way, not to mention that I had to bail out water from my living room, etc... They gave me back the $2 and change forthe parts... |
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#6
01/02/2007, 05:09 PM
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Best thing I can say [from Spokane] is:
1. draw a pipe diagram with arrows indicating direction of flow. Make sure where it's going. Assemble it and make sure you understand the water flow, where it's going from and to. 2. have a friend handy or have a Disaster Button that will stop the main pump, and have yourself trained to reach for it. 3. Have towels. 4. get some good plastic hose clamps of the right size, and have a good pliers ready to affix them. Tight is good. 5. Start with your sump 1/3 full and your downflow half full from spillage from your display tank and TURN ON PUMP for the first time. It will about drain your sump. Add saltwater to sump until sump reaches half full. Now comes the scary part: kill the pump and hope the sump holds the water that drains down from the downflow: stand by to cut ON the pump again, which will remove water from the sump. If it holds all that drains down from the overflow and does not overflow the sump, your system is now fully primed. Fill sump with the pump off until you are sure you have as much water as your sump can safely hold without overflowing. Turn pump on. MARK A LINE on your sump that represents the fill line when your pump is on. This is your topoff line when your system has lost water due to evaporation. Envision this whole process until it makes sense, why that sump and downflow should vary, and in what way they vary. Diagram it until you understand it. Once you have it properly set, you can go to the store without worrying: as long as your hose couplings hold, even if the pump stops, the system/sump will not overflow. Getting it set is a bit hairy, but just have a friend with his hand on the pump switch/plug and have a stack of thirsty towels.
__________________
Sk8r "Make haste slowly." ---Augustus. "If anything CAN go wrong, it will, and at the worst possible moment."---St. Murphy. |
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#7
01/02/2007, 10:01 PM
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Oh, I understand the process no problesms. But what I understand better is my ability to screw up, mostly due to inexperience. If I foreget one thing, then ooopsssies...
HAvinga second opinion here to check and double check is a benefit that not many could easily turn down.. I ahve already fired up the system, and had a defective fitting, and nothing could be done about that. I did forget the check valve from the sump to the tank, so when I did kill the sump, the water flowed back to the sump, and I did have too much water in there, so I had to quickly throw in the hose to syphon the tank. I did not lose or spill any water due to that, but to the defective pvc fitting, I spilled about five gallons. AFter I cleaned up that mess, I was tooling around theoverflow and adjusting the standpipe, and accidentily hit one of the closed loop valves, and did not notice that I did that. IT opened ever so slightly, I did not know. So after I went out to the garage for about ten minuntes, and came back to lake bergovoy, I was scrambling as I had tofind the source of the leak on a closed loop that was letting air in and the water to flow backaward... Again something that a second person would have picked up on probably immediatelyl. Anyways, I just want to finish this project NOW!!! It is like a bandaid that is being pulled slowly... just get it over with. And unlike NOSHMOs comments about finding a less demanding hobby, maybe I need to find a hobby that has less critical wannabe supporters and members to forums... But I know HE is the exception to this group here, most everyone else is supportive and helpful. But the ilkes of him will show up in any give area just to pick on others for thier own amusement or justifications of self righteousness... |
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#8
01/02/2007, 10:11 PM
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Hey Bill
If I were you I will get a use 40 gal acrylic tank and use it as a sum. Acrylic is easy to drill and work with. 2 sheet of acrylic and some silicon and you are done with the baffle. What do you have as of equipment that you want to install beside your return pump and skimmer? Any chiiler,cal reactor fresh water top off....?don't make it too complicate that will give you more chances for leak. You saw my set up just a skimmer inside the sump 1 pump to chiller and return to sum one external pump to pump back to main tank. Anthony
__________________
Anthony I will trade my golf swing for your tyree frag. |
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#9
01/02/2007, 10:25 PM
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Honestly, I doubt Noshmo's response was meant to be critical. But more as a little light hearted reality check. You're setting up a sizeable tank, and if the stress of setting it up under a relatively controled environment (you're standing there watching and can manually intervene at any time) is getting to you, how are you going to react when something unforseen happens when you can't be in control? Not to bring about any bad juju or anything, but if you're going to have that much water in a relative fragile container inside your house, you should be emotionally prepared for the posibility of things getting wet. I'm not saying they should, and I know what you mean about wanting a different perspective for a sanity check, but it is a definite posibility.
Your experience is exactly why I would prefer to run in a new system in the garage. Plumb it with unions so it can be taken apart/serviced, then after it has run and proven itself to be solid under different user-induced scenarios, move it into the house. Now outside of the hindsight on testing outside the garage, I would strongly advise that you re-evaluate your choice on sump volume. To my way of thinking, the best failsafes are the ones that have no moving parts and are designed into the system. To this end, do yourself a favor and figure out how much water drains out of your tank when the return pump is shut off. Then make sure you have this amount of capacity plus some cushion above and beyond the operating water level of your sump. This way a stuck check valve or fluke event shouldn't end up in gallons of water on your carpet. If your overflow is watertight, you would take the volume of your tank execept subsitute the distance between the bottom of your overflow teeth to the operating water line as your height. From there factor in whatever amount of volume you have in your drain plumbing (a standard cylinder volume equation works here) and that should give you a good ballpark. The other thing you'd want to look into is the location of your return plumbing outlets in relation to the overflow teeth. If your outlets are below the teeth, it is possible for them to siphon water until the water level drops below the outlets. Yes you should employ a swing check valve in your plumbing, but you also can't bank on it working when you need it to. Do a little searching and I'd bet you could find instances of failure pretty quick in those deals. In short, if your tank will dump 30 gallons of water when the pump is shut off, make sure you have 30 gallons of capacity in the sump to catch it all. Outside of that, run calculations on your drain and overflow capacity in comparission with your expected return pump output to make sure you can't run into a problem there. Let's see what else... Make sure that your sock compartment can flow the full drain rate of your tank if the sock becomes full. Eventually you'll want to go on vacation, and sometimes socks fill up.... make sure the water can get into the sump rather than out of the sock chamber and onto the floor. That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but it's a start. Chris |
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#10
01/02/2007, 10:29 PM
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I am now in the market for acrylic sump. I have the chiller and calc reactor and your skimmer.
Ther eis nothing too complicated just been draggin on for too long, and with my set back over the weekend I am just frustrated. The last thing I needed was a pvc fitting witha a quarter inch hole int he side of it, right up next to the OM four way. I had to cut all the piping out of the four way to get it out. At least this time I will ahve unions up agains the four way for future catostophhe when a manufactured part goes bad... The glass ump I have now, is too tall, as I want to use a gravity top off. I stillahve to submerge my return pump as it is too loud tobe outside the water. I want to build a manifold for the return to branch to teh chiller and the calc reactor and your skimmer, but as you said, not too complicated for now. I have no worries on the leaking of my pvc work, just the lack of confidence in the pvc product, and my lack of experience that made me forget about the check vavle from teh return line, which could hqve been another catastrophe, but I saved that ordeal, barely... Also, the balancing of the return pump to the main tank was filling the / over-filling the tank quicker then the drain could keep up, So I will be puttingi n a three way valve to return some flow back to the sump... Some things I know about, but forget about just as easy... |
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#12
01/02/2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Steve 
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#13
01/02/2007, 10:50 PM
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hi Bill
Call Tom from Carson tropical in Hawaiian garden 5629247685 and tell him that I recommend. He has a lot of use acrylic tank which people trade in and pretty good price. My 50 refugium next to my main tank only cost me $40. Anthony
__________________
Anthony I will trade my golf swing for your tyree frag. |
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#14
01/02/2007, 11:59 PM
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I am prepared for the potential of a major catastrophe. AS much as anyone can be I guess, but since this tank project is now in its second month, and I have had to deal with re placing the back glass on the tank, because I can not count to six, and then building the stand, and rebuilding the stand because of an error in height, then having to do the normal plumbing that I was prepared for, but having the factory fitting fail, just seemed to be the one that made me reach out of some help. I dont think it is a sign that I am not prepared, or that I am weak, just one of my looking to make sure I do not have to do this AGAIN, because of a stupid mistake, either on my part, or not checking something that could be checked, (maybe if I had a sperate set of eyes, I could have seen that fitting had a hole in it or had a weak spot..) Either way, there is a point where I think anyone wants to get the project they are on over, expecially if it goes beyone what they or others may think is a more then normal amount of tiem should be alloted.
If you want to interpret that as to whether or not I can handle risk for unexpected, you may do so. I merely look at it as a call out to a resource that may or may not be available. I would hate to have survived this only for someone to say, hey, why didnt you just ask, and we could have helped you, or could have given you some tips, As for the tips above, thanks, I did try to figure for the max amount that would fall back to teh sumop, with teh exception of hte check valve that I forgot to install, (I had it here, oredered it, just forgot to install it). The bulkhead is just below the teeth. And that is a substantial amount of water. I am not sure how to plan for that much, in the event the check valve fails. I guess that will be for when my mettle is tested, along with my homeowners insurance... Bottom line is, if there is someone that wants to hang out, check my work, drink a beer or two or teach me something I dont know. I am receptive to it all. I know I am not the expre some of you are, and I am not imbarassed or ashamed to ask for help. so take it anyway you like, and offer help, be glib, throw out an insult, it dont matter, The tank will get done,eitehr this week, nexst wek, or the week after. I will learn a few things in the process that is for certain. Thanks Bill |
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#15
01/03/2007, 12:03 AM
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throttle back
I originally had planned a manifold for three outputs, each with its own gate valve. I gave up on that for now, as I have limited space and dont have finalized locations for the equipment I want to run. so, for now, I will go ahead and throttle back the return line and choke that big old bad mag24. No doubt it can out perfrom the overflow...
You shouldhave seem me go fo rthe plug... I have to start on my elctrical side.... I will have everything switched. I planned on working on that while the tank was wet testing and cycling...Seems I shoulda set it up first so I can have acess to the on off buttons... Quote:
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#16
01/03/2007, 12:05 AM
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Bergovy,
I found a leak in my tank and it took me three times to fix it. I had to tear down my tank completely twice. After being ****ed for a few days and having my wife a little upset I finally got through it. Dont get down on yourself. You are almost done and in the end you are gonna have great results. Put your head down and drive hard across the goalline!!!!!!!!!!!! This hobby gets crapppy sometimes but it is allllll worth it!!!!!!
__________________
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. - Thomas Alva Edison |
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#17
01/03/2007, 12:22 AM
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Oh, I know... When it is done, I plan on having a few good stiff ones, (I dont drink, so it shouldnt take more then a few, and some quality time in front fothe tank. Just me, and my tank, that is ll I need,... And this ashtray.... and this thermas... just this ashtray, and the thermos.... that is all I need....
*name that movie.... |
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#19
01/03/2007, 01:18 AM
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Every day I leave my apartment, I hope to not see water dripping out of the building! That means, uh oh, something in my plumbing is leaking through the floor and spilling out through the building into the carport. Glad I rent!
On my first setup, I didn't initially have any sump, for simplicity. I'm happy I did that, because it would have driven me insane getting it to work at that stage. |
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#20
01/03/2007, 01:30 AM
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I am not a bum... Ima JERK!!!
And this pizza in a cup guy put the other pizza in a cup guy outta business.. And I am the presidento f a homeowners association and we have our share of plumbing leaks too. Wich I rented sometimes... NOT!!!! |
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#21
01/03/2007, 01:33 AM
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I am not a bum... Ima JERK!!!
And this pizza in a cup guy put the other pizza in a cup guy outta business.. And I am the president of a homeowners association and we have our share of plumbing leaks too. Wish I rented sometimes... NOT!!!! |
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#24
01/03/2007, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
__________________
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. - Thomas Alva Edison |
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