Results of my potassium testing (KZ-K test pics included)

[ObscurityKnocks]

Ah, I read that as the tank was only 3 months old not you added your first frags in July. No that is not old but I would imagine using cooked rock and a 4 month old tank before adding frags would be sufficient.

[Covey]

Originally posted by Wiskey
I use K2SO4 (Potassiam sulfate) in my Planted tank. I get a pound of it for about $1 and a pound is enough to keep my planted tank at around 40 PPM+ for about a year.

Maybe it could be used in reefs too?

Whiskey

Could work but I think the sulfur would get used by suflur fixing anaerobic bacteria and futher reduce nitrate. Might not be useful in a tank your trying to make "dirter". Could be totally wrong.

[Serioussnaps]

i want to see pics of your corals lobster

[RichConley]

Originally posted by ctreefer
I've also seen there's a Pottassiam Nitrate which unfortunately increases your nitrates as well.

But is that really an issue? Most of the people with coral coloration issues have systems that are very good at getting rid of nitrate. The processing power in our systems is ridiculous.


Plus, a lot of the phosphate issues tanks have are caused by the fact that the Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphate ratio is off, generally with phosphate skewed high. Nitrate may actually HELP.

[twon8]

Originally posted by RichConley
But is that really an issue? Most of the people with coral coloration issues have systems that are very good at getting rid of nitrate. The processing power in our systems is ridiculous.


Plus, a lot of the phosphate issues tanks have are caused by the fact that the Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphate ratio is off, generally with phosphate skewed high. Nitrate may actually HELP.

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
FWIW, using KNO3 to boost potassium by a fairly small percentage, 20 ppm = 5%, will add 32 ppm nitrate.

that is a bit too much nitrate for my system to handle.

and from what i understand it seems to be the zeolites that remove potassium from our systems, so unless one is running those they are not likely to be deficient.

[Big E]

I believe the zeolites are reducing the potassium also. I think Lobsters problems could be more of an imbalance as Rich has suggested. I mentioned this in another thread also.

[Donw]

Originally posted by Big E
I believe the zeolites are reducing the potassium also. I think Lobsters problems could be more of an imbalance as Rich has suggested. I mentioned this in another thread also.

The salt mix we are all using is low in K, well most of us anyways. Tanks without zeo consume K either by the corals or precip or some other means, who knows. I really havent figured out if K supplimenting is doing anything other than draining my wallet.


Don

[Big E]

I think non zeo users have to determine whether K is being depleted in the first place. I haven't heard anyone say that other than zeo users.

I've heard that the readings are low but no one has proven any depletion is happening. If your K levels are the same as your new make up salt then your system isn't depleting it. This would be an easy test for someone who has the kit.

[Donw]

Originally posted by Big E
I think non zeo users have to determine whether K is being depleted in the first place. I haven't heard anyone say that other than zeo users.

I've heard that the readings are low but no one has proven any depletion is happening. If your K levels are the same as your new make up salt then your system isn't depleting it. This would be an easy test for someone who has the kit.

I can tell you my tank (no zeo) depletes K fairly rapid. The magic questions are, where is it going and does it matter.

Don

[Big E]

What's the readings for your fresh make up water & your system Donw?

[reefreef]

The salt mix we are all using is low in K, well most of us anyways. Tanks without zeo consume K either by the corals or precip or some other means

I think it does not matter if salt mix is low as i doubt it pottasium gets used much by coral.
I use red sea salt and got my water tested using the KZ test kit,
My pottasium was 380ppm.
the KZ test kit is very hard to use so it could be out by 100ppm.

[drock59]

I can tell you my tank (no zeo) depletes K fairly rapid. The magic questions are, where is it going and does it matter.

Donw, you can tell me all you want but i want proof. How do you know it is depelted? What test kit/methods are you using to determine your K levels?

[Lobster]

Just as an update, I've seen an improvement in several corals in the last week. I of course can't attribute it to K addition, but I'm definitely going to keep monitoring and supplementing it because its obviously not hurting and I figure being close to NSW levels has to be better than not. Several of my millepora have taken on a green hue and one has gone from tan to light blue and is coloring up more each day. I still have seen no improvement in the two pieces of digitata (green, purple), but everything else is growing great. Digitata seems to want to die in my tank.

Now here's the crazy part... I found red bugs! I'm happy about it... its a problem I can fix. The millepora in the first picture below has a pretty bad infestation of them. Despite this, the coral is coloring up for the first time ever. It's taken on a lot of green, which IME some milles do before going to another color. My scripps mille is solid neon green also. I'm going to order more frags to finish off my tank and then treat with interceptor.

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
i want to see pics of your corals lobster

The digitata pictured (as well as a purple frag) wont even put out polyps anymore, I think they may have been irrepairably damaged by whatever is effecting my color and are unable to recover. Yet I have a different purple digi frag and an ORA digitata frag (acquired much more recently) that are growing well. So strange!

I have another thread here with more info.

Originally posted by Donw
I can tell you my tank (no zeo) depletes K fairly rapid. The magic questions are, where is it going and does it matter.

My system also obviously depleted it, but I do not know how rapidly or what is depleting it.

The only explanation I have seen anyone post of why potassium is important so far is that it is used in active transport. From high school biology class, I remember active transport being a mechanism by which cellular membranes wrap around molecules and transport them across the cell wall. So K would be used in selectively transporting substances either into or out of cells. I have no idea how accurate this is.

Originally posted by drock59
Donw, you can tell me all you want but i want proof. How do you know it is depelted? What test kit/methods are you using to determine your K levels?

He is using the same kit I did in the original post, and he had it lab tested and determined it was pretty accurate. We know K is being utilized somewhere, so it is at least "depressed" if not depleted.

[drock59]

sweet, thanks.

[Lobster]

Also, I mixed a batch of Instant Ocean last night. I am going to try to test that as well as my tank water again today. I'll post results.

[Donw]

Originally posted by Lobster
Also, I mixed a batch of Instant Ocean last night. I am going to try to test that as well as my tank water again today. I'll post results.

There is a little more to it. If you notice with IO the level will be around 250-280. It seems to stay there all the time with almost no depletion. If you bump that up to 380 you will find that it is difficuly to keep it that high by dosing. Is this just the point of precip or is a point of saturation that becomes useful, who knows.

Drock59, you need proof? You need to buy a test kit and have a lab monitor your water at least three times per year as I do. I use Spectra Labs, Tacoma WA. They will be happy to do all the testing you want and provide you with all the analytical proof you need.

Don

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

One of my friend made me a 400ppm of K+ solution, I tested it with KZ test kit, it is 380ppm, closed enough to me.

One of the thing still bothers me that SC salt shows me only 250ppm of K+ after 24 hours water mixed. Anybody has better munber? I can complain about the SC if someone else has better readings.

[drock59]

Drock59, you need proof? You need to buy a test kit and have a lab monitor your water at least three times per year as I do. I use Spectra Labs, Tacoma WA. They will be happy to do all the testing you want and provide you with all the analytical proof you need.

Thanks for not being a richard

[Treg]

Lobster,
I am in the exact same boat. Weak, almost sickly colors, minimal growth. I've watched a Digitata grow about 1/2" at most in 6 months. Encrusting monties about 1/4" in the same time. My Acros encrust like mad but almost no vertical growth at all. An unmounted mille frag has layed down a silver dollar size base but nothing up or no new branching. Thats in about 9 months!
Great PE tho on everthing... I'm about as confused as can be.

My water is so clear the fish look suspended in air. I added a bunch of fish and increased feedings by near 4 fold. I have been all across the spectrum in light timing, 2 hrs to 8. Raised and lowered, have even replaced all MH and T5 bulbs, twice.

So, I also thought it might be potassium. I got that test kit a couple of months back, Waste of money IMO... That test kit is just a total PITA to read. Dosing the K didnt help my colors or growth anyway. Atleast none that I could tell. I actually got a little dino going tho after using it. Bonus I guess.

I'm trying a new salt now. From TMPR to Seachem’s Reef Salt. Figure its worth a shot...
Dont really want to go back to a DSB. I love the BB look and the amount of flow I have would be a little much for sand...
I Might try a DSB again someday buy I really dont want to.

[twon8]

but isn't there a lot of potassium in foods? i know bananas are rich in K, likely there are some others with high levels that could be used instead of expensive zeo additives.

[Lobster]

Originally posted by Donw
There is a little more to it. If you notice with IO the level will be around 250-280. It seems to stay there all the time with almost no depletion. If you bump that up to 380 you will find that it is difficuly to keep it that high by dosing. Is this just the point of precip or is a point of saturation that becomes useful, who knows.

Instant Ocean tested the same range for me.

Hmm... I wonder if I elevate 1L of freshly mixed IO saltwater to 400ppm K and let it sit for a week, what would the K level be after the week is up? Might be an interesting test to see if it precipitates out. I'm not sure how I'd determine how much K-Balance to add to raise it that much though.

[Lobster]

Originally posted by Treg
Lobster,
I am in the exact same boat.

Yep, that is the same boat alright! I tried changing my lighting all around too, and honestly I think it didnt do a thing but slow my growth. I think the role lighting plays is way over-dramatized in the hobby.

I'm starting to see improvement, and I can only attribute it to adding fish and heavier feeding, or the K-Balance additions. Nothing else has changed. I have a yellow tang, three bartlett's anthias, a chalk bass, two small clowns, and a blue chromis in my 30G display!!! Its the only way to get enough food in the tank. Once a day, I feed one cube of mysis, one cube of brine, one cube of formula two, one cube of cyclopeeze, and 1/4 teaspoon of 5-100 micron golden pearls. I turn my return pump off and let the mixture swirl around for 15 minutes. I add nori continuously as my tang consumes it. Twice a day I feed brine shrimp flakes. Crazy amount of food! I ramped up to this slowly, and I did get outbreaks of various algae and things, but as the tanklife adapted to the increase in nutrient, each nuisance would subside after a few days. People are not kidding when they say you can feed a BB tank heavy.

Originally posted by twon8
but isn't there a lot of potassium in foods? i know bananas are rich in K, likely there are some others with high levels that could be used instead of expensive zeo additives.

There must be some. But, read above the amount of food I add, and my potassium is still deficient! The big question is, as Donw said, where is the potassium going so quickly (used up? precipitated?) and is it neccessary to keep supplying it? What negative effect if any is a low potassium level of 230-260ppm having? On what? Why?

[Big E]

I use IO with a BB setup & I don't have this problem.

Treg & Lobster,

One thing I noticed is both your skimmers are major OVERKILL for your systems. Treg you are also running rowa.......how bout carbon? Lobster?

I don't run carbon or rowa, but I do 10% water changes weekly.
Just trying to point out differences between setups.

Instead of dumping more food in why not just try turning those skimmers off occasionally? Maybe leave it off one day a week to start. Or stop using some of the chemical removers?

I think the systems are suffering from a nitrate/phosphate imbalance. The corals are being deprived. I'm not buying the low potassium level theory. These salts low in potassium have been that way for years. Why is this now an issue for traditional setups(non zeo)? It doesn't make sense.

That's my opinon.........good luck.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by twon8
but isn't there a lot of potassium in foods?

As far as I understand, it is. Whether the same compounds, as useful [or more so] - that's a good question.
But it's in there.

I also agree ... that this whole K question makes me wonder how people ever got nice results and color before, with these `K-deficient salts'. Because they sure have, without dosing or testing ...

[slojmn]

The only explanation I have seen anyone post of why potassium is important so far is that it is used in active transport. From high school biology class, I remember active transport being a mechanism by which cellular membranes wrap around molecules and transport them across the cell wall. So K would be used in selectively transporting substances either into or out of cells. I have no idea how accurate this is.

Just to clarify a bit, Active transport is exactly as you described and it requires energy. However the K is not used to help transport, and wrapping around a molecule is actually engulfing, another way and single cell annimal may get a molecule that it needs to ingest, different than active transport. Passive transport is the mechanism by which molecules travel from higher concentration areas in or out of a cell to a lower concentration area to create a balance of molecules in both areas. So when active transport happens it is a cell transporting more of something it needs from a lower concentration area to a higher concentration area...going against nature, so as to speak and this requires energy. Where as the passive transport requires no energy. Potassium is often one of those molecules that gets transported into a cell through active transport. I am not sure if this sheds any light on things but potassium is definately used by cells. It is neccessary in cell functioning. My guess is it is neccessary for corals as well and must be used to some degree for cell functioning in our tanks. To what degree I don't know. All I know is that I have been dosing the K balance in my zeo system and it has helped tremendously with my monti caps, or at least the one I have left. The other monti cap frags (2) faded away over months. My LE flower petal is coming back like great guns since really ramping up my K balance dosing. Nothing else has changed in my tank since September when I began the extra K balance dosing. I do agree that the Potassium test kit is really hard to use. I never had really low readings according to the test kit, definately in the low to mid 300's but not super low.

I agree with Mark on the whole "what about before potassium additives came around on non zeo tanks?" question. I wonder about over skimming on non zeo tanks...maybe there is more depletion of certain things these days with these very oversized skimmers and the trend to really "clean" the water. All very interesting but I have no answers just more questions and thoughts...

I am just happy to say I am at a really good point in my tank, over a year into it and it is finally stable and, for the most part, rockin right now. Colors are popping .