has anyone had success in keeping clams under pcs

syddakyd · #1 09/29/2006, 01:34 AM

under power compact lighting?

i see almost everyone recomends the halides but i have pc's

OrionN · #2 09/29/2006, 05:44 AM

They may live under PC if you have enought tupe but Maxima and Crocea will look better under MH. Gigas, Derasa, and Squamosa will do OK but all three will get huge.

Omar H · #3 09/29/2006, 07:53 PM

Not me, I couldn´t keep a clam alive and growing until I changed to MH´s

Also be wary of those that advice that they`ve "had their clams for 2 months and they're perfect". Clams take many months to die from starvation from insufficient light.

Now, when they tell you that they've kept their clams for at least a year and the clams present evident shell growth, then pay attention, you want to know how they did it. And I'm sure people will be able to share stories about clams kept under PC's, t-5's, VHO and even NO's.

As a general rule, croceas and maximas are the most light demanding and fare much better with MH's, as you've already heard.

Omar

t-bone2 · #4 09/29/2006, 08:02 PM

ive had a derasa for 6 months doing great

critterkeeper · #5 09/30/2006, 10:10 AM

Last spring I posted a question about keeping clams long-term under fluorescents of any type.

After over 1,000 views, there were only 7 people that said they had, and none of them had croceas if I remember right.

Not all clams are created equally. It seems that a few "tough" individuals of a species can make it under less light - but most can't. For every success story - there are lots of failures that nobody is writing about.

jmaneyapanda · #6 09/30/2006, 11:31 AM

I agree with Omar. PCs do not generate a lot of light insensity, so I dont think clams would flourish under them. I had some clams under VHO for a while, and they slowly slowly bleached, from what I'm presuming to be underillumination. I dont blame the VHO's outright, because they were at the bottom of a 90, but nonetheless, intensity and lots iof lights are core critical requirements for clams.

RFC · #7 10/01/2006, 08:59 PM

I have a crocea for the past three months under 195w pc lighting. It sits around 5 inches from the top of the tank is is doing fine. I feed the tank DT 3 times a week and I have seen new shell growth.

TearDrop · #8 10/04/2006, 12:02 PM

You can keep them under PC's, but they need to be high up and near the light.

OrionN · #9 10/04/2006, 12:06 PM

I consider RFC Crocea as hyperexpanded mantel, which is a sign of not getting enough light. It also appears to lost some color in parts of the mantel. While this clam may looks OK, it is not under optimal light.

jmaneyapanda · #10 10/04/2006, 12:21 PM

Nice pics RFC. While clams can likely be kept alive under PC, I do not think they will thrive as with under other lighting. I feel people way overestimate what wattage of lighting is to consider. For example, If I have 50 watts of light on a 10 gallon tank, that is 5 watts per gallon, about the same average as 2 400 watt MH bulbs on a 150 gallon. However compare the light production of a 50 watt light bulb to that of a 400 watt metal halide. Night and day (no pun intended). The 400 watt has the proper intensity for the proper metabloic action, while the 50 watt bulb will not. The same watts per gallon does not equal the same lighting intensity. Furthermore, with tube bulbs like fluroescents and pcs, the wttage is distibuted over a larger area. With directional lights (like MH), there is a intensity gradient, where much light will be "focused". I have drastically oversimplified these statements, but the concept applies.

Orion- I do not think we can make those statements you said. We have no idea what this clam has looked like in the past to say if it is hyperextending, or bleaching. I may be, or it may be recovering, or it maty be the natural color and mantle.

RFC · #11 10/04/2006, 04:37 PM

Orion,

I am just a noobee, but I have not noticed any change in color to indicate bleaching. At another board, someone mentioned that at this size 2.5 inches, feeding it DT is more important than light. After they get bigger (over 3) then light becomes its main source of energy.

I dont know if its hyperextending because it had a similar look at the store under MH.

Time will tell what the future holds, but for now I am seeing new shell growth (white ridges) and seems content. However, from what I have read, it would probably be happier under MH.

OrionN · #12 10/04/2006, 06:12 PM

I am not saying that the clam is bleached, nor that it is not growing. The color change I am talking about is the blue color, not the brown. It is growing, all I am saying is that it likely will do better if it is given more light.

2crazyreefers · #13 10/04/2006, 07:17 PM

I have had a Derasa and a squamosa for 2 years in a 75 reef tank with PC lighting. We do have 390 watts of PC and dose B-Ionic. The are both doing great with good consistant growth. Although we tried a crocea for a short time it was not good for it so we put it under our hallide tank where it belongs IMO

OrionN · #14 10/04/2006, 07:19 PM

RFC,
Your tank is very beautiful. I also checked your website. Very beautiful pictures.

parothead22 · #15 10/08/2006, 08:49 AM

Remember that as baby's and their initial juvenille stages of life they require phyto/nano plankton for food as their zooxanthellae and irridophores in their mantle have not developed yet.
Once they mature, roughly after 3-4 years(adult stage) they will require moderate to intense light depending on the species for food and survival.
because of this, you have to make sure that your lighting is strong enough(PAR) to ensure that photosynthesis can take place within the zooxanthellae of their mantle. This whole idea of carbon dioxide/ oxygen transfer is the key to the clams long term success!!!!!

critterkeeper · #16 10/08/2006, 01:38 PM

Parothead, the idea that juveniles need to be fed until they reach some specific size is a myth that just won't go away. There have been controlled scientific studies that have shown that even the smallest clams can get over 100% of the carbon/sugar they need via their zooxanthellae. Nitrogen and other nutrients are absorbed directly from seawater at any size, as well.

How did the myth start? There's a lot of money to be made selling phyto...

jmaneyapanda · #17 10/08/2006, 04:41 PM

critter- Im not a doubter, I would like to see this research. Do you know where I could find it?

parothead22 · #18 10/08/2006, 05:04 PM

Clams do not possess the zooxanthellae needed for photosynthesis at small sizes, thus the need for nano/phytoplankton...
If these were true...the notion of it being a myth, then why are so many baby clams dying and have a short track record for survival and kept under Metal halides? And if this were the case, then I guess all the research provided by Daniel Knopp, Robert Fenner, Charles Delbeeck and Julian Sprung and the like must be false studies!

critterkeeper · #19 10/08/2006, 06:26 PM

Parothead, not trying to ruffle your feathers (har, har, har), but none of those authors you mention have done any studies on tridacnid nutrition, and none have said they require food at small sizes. Only R. Shimek has insisted on that, in an article posted on the website of a company that sells phyto. Coincidence? That's how this whole thing got started. And I'll add that the papers that Shimek referenced don't say what he says they do.

No need to take my word for it though, read these for yourself:

Fitt & Trench 1981
Fitt et al. 1986
Klumpp & Griffiths 1994
Griffiths & Klumpp 1996

James Fatherree
www.liquid-medium.com

johnnybravo234 · #20 10/09/2006, 05:55 PM

Ive had a blue maxima under 65w of pcs for a couple years now and it healthy and growing. Not very quickly but its growing.

johnnybravo234 · #21 10/09/2006, 06:01 PM

I forgot to mention that I feed phyto twice a week and mysid every day so maybe that has something to do with my success too. It is sitting in the sand on the bottom of my 55g.

critterkeeper · #22 10/09/2006, 06:22 PM

JonhnnyBravo - you are VERY lucky.

Again, it's pure luck when it comes to keeping most of these under anything other than MH. For every clam that makes it - lots don't...

Omar H · #23 10/09/2006, 08:58 PM

Johnnybravo,

Could you post a picture of your clam? We'd love to see it.

Omar