Taking all donations so I can get my Gem Tang. It's finally on sale. - Page 3

Manogr · #51 08/03/2006, 07:39 AM

Here in Athens, Greece we can order the Gem Tang for around 500 Euros (about $625)... maybe the reason for the huge price difference is shipping costs from collection point or what ?

KDodds · #52 08/03/2006, 08:47 AM

And, from what I have been told, more Gem Tangs make it into Europe in the first place.

reefshadow · #53 08/03/2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Yeah, Clarion's are about $5k here too, and the live off Cali if memory serves correctly.

I thought they were protected and illegal to collect at all now?

I had recently read about an lfs owner in Cali that has one, and won't part with it, even for 5 grand.

KDodds · #54 08/03/2006, 06:34 PM

Could be... I once had hopes of getting Genicanthus personatus. No more. Protected, AFAIK.

copps · #55 08/04/2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KDodds
There's a reason this species is so expensive. AFAIK, it exists only off of Mauritius. There is only one guy collecting them in the entire world. Only maybe a dozen make it into the US every few years. Whomever is selling them (collector or a middle-man) into the US has been burned several times, thus is reluctant to export more into the US. What is pretty is definitely subjective, but I happen to think YTs are blah. If I had to choose a Zebrasoma, and the goal was attainable, I'd choose the Gem Tang. And yeah, one man's $3k is another's $3. Some people can walk into an LFS and spend $1000 in fish in a month, buying only 3 fish. But, if that guy knows what he's doing, those 3 fish will live 10 years or more. Not too bad when you calculate it out, only $100 per year. A darn sight better than someone spending $50 per week on "cheaper" species that only live a few years, wouldn't you say?

Gem tangs have a much larger range than Mauritius, including the islands or Madagascar and Reunion, and mainland Africa (South Africa and Mozambique). The only place with a valid permit on the species is Mauritius however, with around just 100 annually. Many more than a dozen have come in over the past few years as you state. Shipments direct from Mauritius into the US come sporadiacally, which results in gem tangs in the $1000 range (I've seen many of these in the past in person, as recently as last year). What was different about this shipment is that it's the first time in years that they came into wholesalers making them available to online sites like TMC and Liveaquaria... the fact that these well-known sites have not gotten these in years, combined with the added hops and parties along the way from Mauritius resulted in the higher price of $3000. This ridiculous inflated number is basically a way of the online vendors saying they don't care if it takes a while to sell, as they probably know they will not have one for a while... this is evidenced by the fact that the one that Liveaquaria got is still available, despite being very healthy, a perfect marketable size, and with a 14 day guarentee from a great company (I love Liveaquaria). Regardless of who gets permits, this fish will be expensive and rare for a very long time, as apparently they are not common throughout their wide range... The exporter from Mauritius is a PIA to deal with also... I saw a shipment I believe last year come in with 4 gems... 3 DOA and one that lasted a day...

Quote:

Originally posted by reefshadow
I thought they were protected and illegal to collect at all now?

I had recently read about an lfs owner in Cali that has one, and won't part with it, even for 5 grand.

Quote:

Originally posted by KDodds

Yeah, Clarion's are about $5k here too, and the live off Cali if memory serves correctly. :\

They are found as far north as "Cali", but that's Baja California, Mexico... not US Cali...

The Mexican Government is ridiculous when it comes to their regulation of fisheries... clarions have no permits and are protected, yet are ridiculously common in some locales... at certain islands the military call them pirahnas as tyey swarm boats in a sea of orange... I remember years ago when they were common in the trade and retailed in the $300 range... The $5000 figure is just a result of the remnant clarions from a few years ago that were illegally imported, like the LFS owner you mention.

It's interesting how they show up for sale in Japan regularly... while it's much more common there the resale of expensive fish, there are just too many and I'd bet some are coming in from the wild... they are WAY TOO common and Mexico is WAY TOO corrupt and Japan has WAY TOO much money for this not happen

However, unlike the gem tangs, this is a fish that could become regularly available for a few hundred bucks if Mexico's ridiculous policies change on their exportation...

Quote:

Originally posted by KDodds
Could be... I once had hopes of getting Genicanthus personatus. No more. Protected, AFAIK.

Genicanthus personatus are not protected as a species... but rather most commonly found in the Northwest Hawaiian Islands where collection is prohibited. They can regularly be found at shallow conventional scuba depths there... They can also be found in the main Hawaiian Islands where there is free reign on their collection, however they are DEEP and much less common... almost always more than 300' where they CAN be collected with rebreathers. There are some accounts of them in shallower water in the MHI but these are very rare. However, even on Oahu, there are decent size populations at depth, but even with a rebreather going to the 400 or 500 foot range is a process. The good thing is that this species has been bred in captivity and it's a matter of time (although a long time probably) before they're commercially available... again unlike gem tangs...

KDodds · #56 08/04/2006, 02:29 PM

TY for the info on Gems, I was directly quoting someone in the industry. I'm wonder if more make it into other parts of the US then up hear in the NE. The LFS I use (where the info came from), is fairly large in the tri-state area and their info has always been reliable.

LOL, I guess it really doesn't matter whether G. personatus is protected or it's collection is prohibited, doesn't effect whether I can get them or not.

Yeah, I've heard Waikiki has been able to breed them. Still haven't seen a single specimen in 5 years or so, tho.

TWallace · #57 08/04/2006, 02:31 PM

I got upset when my $60 Potter's Angel died in quarantine yesterday. I can't even imagine buying this fish and having it die.

copps · #58 08/04/2006, 03:01 PM

Hey Kieron, no sweat... it's much easier to say what IS then what ISN'T. Are you talking about Absolutely Fish? I grew up in North Jersey there, and actually played youth hockey from age 6 in Suffern NY where you're at there for the Ramapo Saints, and finished up down here in VA playing in the Metropolitan Junior Hockey League for the Washington Junior Capitals until age 20... small world, but I know Suffern well through the thousands of trips to Sport-o-Rama growing up. Absoltely Fish was Aqua-Tropics when I was growing up, and I remember drooling going in there first years ago... seeing $1000 asfur angels from the Red Sea, and $300 clarion angels

As soon as I got my working papers I worked for The Pet Place in Pompton Plains and continued there for the rest of high school and summers home from college.

Regarding Genicanthus personatus, the Waikiki Aquarium is actually putting together a 5000 gallon Northwest Hawaiian Islands exhibit featuring this species, and is collecting donations for it. Our local club is putting together a donation, and you guys should think about bringing it up. Refer to this thread where Charles Delbeek himself posted. The Waikiki Aquarium I call and aquarist's aquarium, skipping the flipping dolphins for excellent reaserch, exhibits, and rare specimens... For those of you who were at last year's MACNA, I introduced his talk on large reef systems throughout the world... and we're alking REAL large... what a talk... Seriously, consider putting your two cents to a good cause...

Twallace, just be happy you didn;t have the blue-black phase potter's die on you... one of the few angels rarer than the personatus in the main HI... this one was photographed by Hiroyuki Tanaka in Japan and retailed for about $6,000. I actually saw one of these on a wholesaler list years ago for $600 wholesale, but I didn't see the specimen and again it was just on the list... There have been other specimens similar in color, but this one was the most striking... the same specimen featured in Scott Michael's volume 3 Reef Fishes book...pretty neat huh? It was reported collected at about 200 feet off the Kona Coast... I've spoken to many HI experts and there is little info on this variant...

Copps

KDodds · #59 08/04/2006, 03:16 PM

Yeah, AbFish. Sport-o-Rama? Isn't that the place up on College Road? They're still there if so.

AbFish still gets tons of rare stuff. You'll walk in and see a Conspic or Black Tang or Acanth and not even be surprised they have one.

Great stock, too. They're revamping the entire reef section this year too. From what they've done so far it's a lot nicer, a lot roomier. For my money (and I've been to virtually every store in Central to North Jersey, NYC area, and CT), they're the best in all 3 states. You see a lot of complaints here on their pricing, but frankly, on the real pricey stuff, they're in-line with MO pricing, or better. For instance, their Gem went for $2500.

RichConley · #60 08/04/2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TWallace
I got upset when my $60 Potter's Angel died in quarantine yesterday. I can't even imagine buying this fish and having it die.

Yeah, I hear yah.

Just a little tip though: Potters do better if they dont end up in a typical QT tank. Theyre grazers, and with how tough it is to get them to reliably feed, they do better when they have a regular source of food. Set up a qt tank, throw some rock and some chaeto in, and they'll do muhc better.

RichConley · #61 08/04/2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NCreefwannabe
yeah dont they still have that show size 2 foot dragon eel? they cost upwards of 7 grand sometimes..... and yes, before you tell people to SHUT IT..... and get all defensive.... Read their divers den description. Once a fish sells its gone. so goes the link. if they have 2 of the same fish, they have 2 links for it, each showing THAT fish.

Thats crazy, Aqua Addicts in NH had a 2 ft plus dragon eel for about a year, and only wanted $800 for it. They ended up selling it for liek $400 because they couldnt get rid of it.

copps · #62 08/04/2006, 03:44 PM

Yeah it's the one on College Road... I still travel to Jersey and NYC from time to time... I was there last weekend actually but didn;t get a chance to hit Absolutely Fish... I've been there a few times over the past years... saw the conspic in their display, along with a flame boxfish I think... another conspic sold for $2500 (high). Conspics are actually relatively regularly available for a price from wholesalers compared to other "rare" angels... the demand just isn't there from 99% of LFS. I found out long ago that over 99% of the hobby doesn;t care or even recognize rarities... just a few of us nuts with an innate and insatiable passion!

Rich hits the nail on the head... too many people confuse hospital and QT tank... a QT does not have to be barren with PVC and glass if no medication is being used. I've QTed many tough fish including my trio of regal angels in a low light established system loaded with liverock... the goal is to CALM the fish into acting naturally and gaining confidence in feeding... the fluctuations in the nitrogen cycling of these bare QT tanks is way too often overlooked leading to the demise of the fish... resulting in the demise being blamed on X disease, when in reality the X disease was a result of a depressed immunity as a result of poor water quality and a frightened fish...

RobbyG · #63 08/04/2006, 03:50 PM

You did'nt really believe him? Its a joke.

Quote:

Originally posted by TWallace
I got upset when my $60 Potter's Angel died in quarantine yesterday. I can't even imagine buying this fish and having it die.

KDodds · #64 08/04/2006, 03:57 PM

True on the "rare" items... look for an upcoming "Holy Grail" article that is somewhat critical of individual "Crusades". But then, a retailer will charge whatever price the market will pay. Just don't ask how much I paid for my last two Wrasses (Mystery, Masudai).

dixonba · #65 08/04/2006, 04:31 PM

great...it even has dedicated ich sites! too much for me!

Kinetic · #66 08/04/2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hopper
I sent my wife a email with the link telling her that this is what I want for our anniversary next month. I see it happening already.

you'll see the couch?

mhj1580 · #67 08/04/2006, 05:28 PM

i showed my wife this thread and she has not spoken to me science yesterday (I also said this would make a nice aniversary pressent)

TheMcs · #68 08/04/2006, 06:09 PM

I'll sell you a black tang with ich for half that...

hopper · #69 08/04/2006, 10:22 PM

Black tang with ich. That's funny.

jmicky41 · #70 08/04/2006, 10:57 PM

If I were to spend 3K on fish it would be a conspic, a mated pair of tinkers, and a candy bass = 3k. My LFS has a gem tang, may take a trip to see it.

Nammy · #71 08/04/2006, 11:45 PM

I want that fish. Can I put him/her with my African cichlids? It looks pretty big, it should do ok with the cichlids.

TWallace · #72 08/05/2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG
You did'nt really believe him? Its a joke.

No, I wasn't responding to Affan. I knew he was joking.

Coral Dilema · #73 08/05/2006, 12:19 PM

OK, yeah, and why all you guys are at it, sending this guy tons of money to buy a fish, go ahead and paypal me some cash at wearin1@hotmail.com No particular reason, just send me money lol.

1. Yes, its a very beautiful fish

2. If you can afford it and you want it, knock yourself out.

3. If you cant afford to spend $3k of your own money to buy a fish, you probably have a better use for $3k even if you had it.

KDodds · #74 08/05/2006, 08:14 PM

ARGH! Two of my "Holy Grails" two weeks in a row at my LFS and both sold before I even saw them. This week they has a Joculator Pygmy Angel. $1k. Gone.

GSchiemer · #75 08/05/2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KDodds
ARGH! Two of my "Holy Grails" two weeks in a row at my LFS and both sold before I even saw them. This week they has a Joculator Pygmy Angel. $1k. Gone.

FYI, there' s a Centropyge joculator for sale at Absolutely Fish in Clifton, NJ. I saw it there today. I don't recall the price, but I'm sure it wasn't $1,000.

BTW, they're great fish. I've had one for close to 10 years now.