What should be appropriate punishment for a 5 yr old boy lying ?

[oz]

Late last night, my 5 yr old son lied to us (mom and dad).

A question arose about him having done something to a friend earlier in the day. I'm too embarass to say what it is. but its not important.

Anyway, my son said he didn't do it and that it was his friend who did it.

After more amd more questioning, he blurped out saying that the friend did it first. So I said... AHA.... so that means you did it too right ? So he finally confess that he did it too but as a retaliation to what the friend did.

I gave him a quick lecture on why he should not do what he did.
And I told him options of what he could have done instead of retaliating by doing the same bad thing back to the friend.
I think he understood. He agreed not to do that again.

I wanted to emphasis on the lying part not the crime itself.

So I told my son that I was glad he finally told the truth but I was disappointed that he lied to us initially. I reminded him about the story about the boy who cried wolf and lectured him a bit on why he should not lie, etc.

It was getting close to bed time so I told him that we're gonna have to discuss an appropriate punishment for lying tomorrow. which is today.

We'll do this this evening when I get home I guess.

So, give me input here please as to what you think should be appropriate punishment for lying.

[Travis L. Stevens]

I read through this, but I'm too eager to find out what he did to get in trouble. Little boys can get into ANYTHING.

[Fat Man]

Oz I know how difficult this is, I've caught Little Girl lying and she has stolen once. First off I think you missed the boat by putting off the discipline untill today. I believe discipline should be immediate. Since you have already discussed your disappointment in his behavior I would leave it at that for now. You might discuss that if the behavior continues there will be a lack of trust between you two. Little Girl found it unpleasant to operate under this situation and her lying has diminished (or she's gotten better at it).

[Muttling]

I'm with Fat Man. Delaying punishment until you can decide what it should be works for older children, but at 5 years old it needs to be dealt with fairly quickly.

That said, you've told him that there will be a punishment and you definitely don't want to fail to carry through on that. My suggestion would be to put up a prized toy for 1 day. Don't make it something that he draws security from like a prized stuffed animal or blanket that he sleeps with, but something that is strictly a play thing.

Tell him it will be returned tomorrow after he gets home from school and IF he has behaved himself. When you go to give it back to him, remind him of why it was put up and tell him that it will be put up again if lies again.

Two notes about this sort of punishment...

1 - It's good in that you can adjust it and it affords you an opportunity to reinforce why it was done as well as threaten him with a "remember when we had to put up ____. If you continue like this, it will be going up again."

2 - Don't go overboard with putting more and more stuff up if he's throwing a tantrum. Putting up a prized toy is still a good punishment, but you might have to use it in conjunction with something like time out to get him to calm down when he's really spun up.



On a final note.....

Did he said he did it back to a friend instead of having instigated the situation? I'd be careful about sending the message that he can't defend himself. It's not political correct in today's parenting, but I think one should be very careful in dealing with situations wehre the child stood up for himself.

Obviously, the item at hand is the fact that he lied about having done it but I'd make it do my best to seperate the lying issue from the issue of what he did and try to teach him what are appropriate things with respect to both issues.

[Nina51]

oh the poor little guy! he's had to wonder all day today what his daddy is gonna do to him and by the time he gets home, he's gonna have a grown up ulcer from all the worry. isn't that punishment enough??

on the serious side, i agree with mutt. take away something he adores but only for a day. a day will seem like forever to a 5 year old. and remember, ALL kids lie and as long as it doesn't get to be a habit, it's all part of growing up.

[Buckeye ME]

Out with his tongue!








Or what everyone else said...

[emilye2]

Hmmm....I guess I'm on the outs on this one too (big surprise when it comes to parenting huh? ) Me? I would make a HUGE ordeal out of it. Take away most of his toys, tv privledges, friend time---all of it. Hell for you for a day or two but make the point the first time out. Taking away one toy is forgettable in the right situation. But making the impression that what he did was the most heinous crime imaginable in that family will make a lasting impression. Yeah, you'll have a mess to clean up when you hand down the news but you'll only have to do that once and then be reasonably sure it won't happen again any time soon.
For example:My daughters will not hit each other. Ever. And if they are playing and accidentally hit each other they apologize to each other and then to me. Why? The first time either of my girls hit each other and were old enough to know what they were doing, we went off the deep end. Time outs were only part of it! There were loud voices, lectures, toys removed the works. They needed to apologize to the other and were not allowed to play together for a good half hour. And now, they won't hit me, each other, or friends.
Now all that being said, FM has a point. The impact is greater if it's done in the moment. However I commend you for not just winging it and taking the time to make sure you did the right thing. THat can also show your child that you are not making this decision in anger. However, for a five year old-he's probably forgotten about it entirely during the course of the day at school. So this time maybe just another big talk and take away tv/toy/some other fun thing for two days or whatever, with the warning that next time it will be much much worse!

[Wilafur]

sew his mouth shut.

[Nina51]

i dunno about anybody else but hell will freeze over before i EVER HIT EMILY!!!

[Pandora]

Let's discuss oz's punishment for procrastination, more fun. Temp ban from RC lounge?

[Fat Man]

His wife already did that to him once.

[emilye2]

Nina-I'm afraid it's the other way around dear! Heck if you hit me once you'd probably knock me into next tuesday!

[Muttling]

Boys are a bit different then girls emilye. A girl can hit back or can be afraid to hit back and still avoid being the bully's most favored victim.

Boys play more rough and more aggressively then vast majority of girls. (Note: Some girls will mix it up with the boys, but the vast majority won't.) If they're afraid to push back (even in play), they'll quikcly gain most favored victim status.

When they get into pre-teens the face of the games really change and one that is intimidated by getting a little physical will get eaten alive in team sports. (I'm talking about back yard games as well as organized sports.)

As I noted above, it's not politically correct these days to teach your children that it's ok to stand up for yourself and to fight back. I strongly disagree with this line of thinking.

[oz]

Thanks for all the input. I'll remember to deal with this sort of thing immediately next time.

Wife thought we should not let him watch TV nor play computer games for a week (and that includes Gameboy) but because he did confess afterward then the sentence is then reduced to 5 days.

What do you think ?

[DizziDezi2]

i think you should beat him... beat him hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just kidding- 5 days isnt bad- i would go 3 bc hes little.

[Dolfan0925]

The harsher the punishment, the less likely the infraction will be repeated.

[Muttling]

Originally posted by oz
Thanks for all the input. I'll remember to deal with this sort of thing immediately next time.

Wife thought we should not let him watch TV nor play computer games for a week (and that includes Gameboy) but because he did confess afterward then the sentence is then reduced to 5 days.

What do you think ?

I think he's too young to really get the concept of it being a lesser punishment because he did the right thing. 5 or 7 isn't going to be much difference to a 5 year old.

Another thing to consider is how difficult is it going to be for you guys to enforce this punishment. If you take advantage of the time when he's distracted by these things to get your house work done, it's going to put a pretty heavy strain on you as well.

Other then that, it might be a bit long but it's not an unreasonable punishment.

[Muttling]

You seem extremely interested in making sure he doesn't lie.

What examples of behavior do you set for him to follow?

Are you honest about Santa Claus, the easter bunny, and the tooth ferry?

Are you honest about whether or not the doctor is going to give him a shot as you head to the doctor's office?

Are you ever less then honest with him about you plans to avoid him throwing a fit about wanting to go somewhere with you, do something, etc.?

Do you ever tell others white lies in front of him? (You know, lie about your plans because you don't want to do something with them or lie about how much you liked a gift they gave you?)

[Nina51]

oh man, 5 days is way too long for a sweet little guy like that to be punished. i really think one or two days at the most will be plenty. i think you're a meany. maybe little man would like to come live with nina. after all, i have a pony.

[Dolfan0925]

I don't think it's so much that he doesn't lie, as much as it is about being accountable for your actions, and the proper way to behave in a civilized society.

[oz]

He's 5 but he will 6 in April. I guess, we'll go with the lesser punishment then, the 5 days.

Mutt, you brought up a lot of good points. Yes, I try to lead by example but I admit I'm not perfect. I agree with most of what you said except santa claus and easter bunny.

[Fat Man]

There is also the idea of progressive discipline you can consider. In the employment world it goes from verbal warning to written warning to suspension and finally dismissal. With small children it might go like this: Discussion and verbal warning to temporary loss of toy or privilege to permanent loss of toy or privilege and finally to your own version of dismissal. Granted there are offenses that are serious enough to bypass the early stages.

One thing I would consider is why the child lied. Was it for embarrassment, avoidance of punishment, or gain? It was embarrassment that is the main issue and lying is secondary. If it’s to avoid punishment the behavior that caused them to lie is primary. If it’s for there personal gain, this is the same as stealing in my mind, the lying is the primary bad behavior. In the first two the reason for lying must be dealt with first. The last reason, which I find the worst, should be dealt with directly and strongly. This last one is a time when I would move straight to dismissal.

[tsquad]

I say break out the hickory stick.

[Muttling]

Originally posted by oz
He's 5 but he will 6 in April. I guess, we'll go with the lesser punishment then, the 5 days.

Mutt, you brought up a lot of good points. Yes, I try to lead by example but I admit I'm not perfect. I agree with most of what you said except santa claus and easter bunny.

I was throwing it out as food for thought more then anything else.

We do Santa and similar things as well. One friend of mine recently got berated by her 7 year old for lying about Santa. I must say, she had it coming to her cause she's always been hard core with stiff punishments for lying regardless of what the lie was.

I'm with Dolfan. It's more about doing the right thing then it is about lying. In this case, he was clearly not doing the right thing.

I also think it's about not being shy or dismissive about your behavior as a parent. I've gotten the best results out of my child when I've said "I've done the same thing and it was just as wrong when I did it. I'm going to try to do better."

[oz]

Oh and as for the crime itself ?

Hmmmm.... Well....

I still can't believe he did this. Its not like him at all.

The babysitter told us (with her limited english) that she thought she heard the other boy reported to his mother when she came to pick her son up that our son peed on him when they were playing at the playground/tree house in our back yard.

I was just flabbergasted when I heard this. My 1st thought was
may be she just heard it wrong, you know with her limited english.

So we asked our son what this was all about and if he had peed on his friend. where, why and how ?

As mentioned, our son denied having done it and said his friend was the one who peed on the playground.

After further questionings, he said that his friend peed on the playground and part of the peed got on his shoes so he retaliated by peeing back on the boy's shoes.

The whole thing of how it happened is still somewhat unclear to me. Like I said, I still can't believe this happened. What the heck were they doing peeing outside in freezing weather.

So my wife called the mother of the boy last night at about 8 PM, just to find out what happen, she wasn't there we left a message asking about the peeing incident.

She never returned our call! Hopefully she will later, like tonight.