T-5's or compact fluorescents???

[bllfish]

I have a LPS/softie tank and they are thriving under T5's not ice cap driven. I am able to keep shrooms midway and down
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...3&goto=newpost

Candy cane top

and Blastos everywhere. Even an sps at top

[twkenny]

Originally posted by David Grigor
Just to confuse you even more, for a LPS/softy tank, I prefer the VHOs over the T5s ( used them for about a year on an icecap ballast ) and PCs. While PAR is certainly a factor for SPS, IMO it is less important for LPS/Softies. VHOs are just right.

VHO would be sufficient, but you can get longer life out of the bulbs, produce less waste (less glass and the gases in the bulbs) and have more variety of bulb choices. Your options are more open as well should one decide to keep higher light animals.
IMO, you really can't go wrong with a T5HO setup.

[chip721]

I was really amazed at the output from a 5/8" bulb. Of course the reflectors are key. I started out with PC's and went to TEK T5's. There's a very appreciable difference. And I like the flexibility to mix and match bulb temps as I choose. IMO and most importantly, is what do you plan to keep in your tank ...now and in the future?

[Horace]

Pending tank depth, you can easily run SPS in the top half of your tank with normally driven T5s if you have good reflectors. If you have icecap ballasts you can forget having quite a few LPS and pretty much all shrooms because they will melt. For pure SPS the icecap is the way to go. If you want a mix of corals, dont go with the icecap.

[twkenny]

Originally posted by Horace
If you have icecap ballasts you can forget having quite a few LPS and pretty much all shrooms because they will melt. For pure SPS the icecap is the way to go. If you want a mix of corals, dont go with the icecap.

That is inaccurate information.

Note the mushrooms...they are growing like crazy.


Here is the underside of the canopy
This was taken to show the layout of the bulbs, so the "intensity" of the bulbs is not shown, and they don't look so blue.


Before anyone freaks out...the Naso tang is now in a 250.

[Horace]

I would like to point out that your setup is not typical. You have a much "thinner" coverage than most. Perhaps in your case it will work fine...but if I was to run all 6 of my bulbs with an icecap I would cook my tank most likely. All of my bulbs span the length of the tank. Im not sure why you didnt just go with less bulbs, but the full length. Just means you ahve more bulbs to change.

[hahnmeister]

I think that the best way to sum it up is that due to T5's ability to penetrate deeper into the tank, and its higher PAR/watt, one has to compensate when setting up their tank and know that 250watts of T5 might melt things on the bottom that 250watts of halide might not...but maybe 180 watts of T5 would be better, or a taller tank. I dont think that either one of you is wrong, or right....you are simply both arguing apples to oranges for a lighting setup. One could easily run an icecap ballast...and do it with less bulbs. Rather than 6 bulbs front to back...only 4 might be needed. Thats what I plan on doing...

Ive been talking with Grim, getting advice for a small prop tank that I want to sneak in under the woman's nose. That means it has to be no more than 3' wide...so a 30 breeder with a 150watt pendant was my first choice. But then I decided that I wanted to do T5s. So I figured a 4x39wattT5 setup would be good. But that also means that my with only 12" of depth, and T5s penetration and spread...I would have little flexibility in coral placement. So then I figured a 40Breeder...but then I also decided an icecap ballast would be a better way to go...and overdrive the 39wattT5s to 60watts each...and instead use a 65breeder (24" tall). Why? Well, T5s carry deeper, and so to be able to place lower light corals at the bottom, and not have them 'react', a T5 tank should be a taller tank than a halide tank of the same wattage. And with 4x60watts of T5... thats plenty of light for almost anything it seems.

[twkenny]

Originally posted by Horace
I would like to point out that your setup is not typical. You have a much "thinner" coverage than most. Perhaps in your case it will work fine...but if I was to run all 6 of my bulbs with an icecap I would cook my tank most likely. All of my bulbs span the length of the tank. Im not sure why you didnt just go with less bulbs, but the full length. Just means you ahve more bulbs to change.

Well...this setup (and rock and most corals) came from my 55 which had 6 T5's. I should have specified that. Sorry.
I would have bought bulbs that span the tank if they made them...longest T5 is a 60" bulb. A 660 can only run 3 of those, as opposed to overdriving 4 46.5" bulbs.
I would only run 4 x 54 over a 55 if I were to do it again, because that seemed like plenty of light for what I was keeping. The extra 2 x 54 did not seem to help or hurt.

[David Grigor]

twkenny, I understand all tanks are different what works for one may or may not work for another. I had virtually the same setup Aquablues + VHO superactinics on Icecap 660s. With more delicate LPSs and no matter where I put them they didn't do as good as with a VHO only system. Several acans / echinos paid top dollar for where less vibrant, became lighter in color. Corals like open brains, elegance, fox coral never expanded or looked as good as they did with VHOs. All sofies, mushrooms, favia, hammers, frogspawn etc. which I see is predominate in your tank all did fine but there were others that didn't. Some zoos did great, others just so-so.

I have no plans of going back to T5s ( especially overdriven ) for an LPS/Softy dominate tank. Bulb life of 12-18 months for VHOs is close enough that money really isn't an issue. Electricity wise there is no difference from what your running.

So mileage will vary. There is no perfect lighting for all situations. If there were we would all have it.

[twkenny]

David, you're getting more than a year out of your VHO bulbs? How long do you run them? IME they start to fade off pretty well after 5 months or so running 10 hours a day.
I agree there is no perfect lighting setup for all situations. I went from PC's to 4 x 54 watt T5 and saw tremendous growth and color. Adding the 2 x 54 more just seemed like it made more heat.
This was all over a 55...the bulbs were 2 aquablue, 1 blue plus and one daylight.
Also, take a look at the posts above showing rics, shrooms and LPS all looking good under T5's.
I guess in summary what I'm saying is to post "If you have icecap ballasts you can forget having quite a few LPS and pretty much all shrooms because they will melt" when there is plenty of evidence otherwise and the original poster is talking clams and anemones along with easy stuff is perhaps a bit too much of a blanket statement.

[IslandCrow]

Are there any rules of thumb when it comes to how much lighting you want for. . .say a 55g tank with T-5s? I think I've heard something like 3 watts per gallon for lighting in general, but when it comes to PCs, VHOs, T-5s and metal halides, I get the feeling that all watts are not created equally.

[twkenny]

Originally posted by IslandCrow
I get the feeling that all watts are not created equally.

You are 100% correct about that. Halides are considered by most to be the most "high end" lighting there is, although T5HO lighting gives it a run for it's money in a lot of ways. Many say T5 is better.
Then there is VHO....the old standby that so many use. Reliable and predictable it's lighting many tanks well.
Then there are PC's. They are pretty cheap these days, but I would never use them again.
The watts per gallon thing is pretty useless these days. If you want to keep a mixed reef, you may want to try something like 1 or 2 VHO actinics and 2 or 3 (whatever totals 4) T5's (bulb color of your liking) on an IceCap 660.

[Horace]

Twkenny, I guess I was just listening to Grim more than anything about the Icecap. He claimed that softies did aweful when the icecap was used. Perhaps that doesnt always apply. That kind of sux because I would have probably got the icecap 660 If I knew that and just ran 4 bulbs. Hmmm now I am re-thinking my setup. Perhaps drop two of my lights and sell the ballasts and go with one 660 and run 4 instead of 6. Its theoretically about the same amount of watts, but the watts would be alot more intense out of only 4 bulbs....HMMMMMMM

[PRC]

It really depends on what you want to keep in the tank. On a 55 you could probably use 2-4 T5s depending on what you wanted to keep. It also depends more on the tank dimensions than on the gallons.
I have six 80W T5 on my 30" deep 220 and they are on icecap 660s so they supposedly run at ~100W. I have a sinularia that has gotten so big it actually touches the surface of the water, about 2" below my Sun bulbs! The thing seems to thrive on it.
For T5's I'd talk to the guys at reefgeek, they're very knowledgable and helpful.

[PRC]

Horace, I'm not certain but I don't think you can run 4x54w T5s on one 660.

[javajaws]

Originally posted by PRC
Horace, I'm not certain but I don't think you can run 4x54w T5s on one 660.

You can

[tkeracer619]

I run MH and will soon have the VHO installed for actinics. You said that you out of range of mh, why they dont really cost that much more than a good t5 setup and if you replace your normal incandescent bulb in your house with pc's it will offset the aquarium lights considerably. but i would def use t5ho's if MH wern't utilized.

[gregrex]

Like many other IC660 T5 users, I've had no luck with mushrooms. I know I was told to expect that, but it was still disappointing... which leads to a new problem/question...

If I wanted to convert over to a primarily softy tank (including mushrooms), does it make sense to just take a couple reflectors off?

[horkn]

my workhorse5 non overdriven 3x39 t5ho retrofit with aqualux reflectors melts all green striped shrooms at will. the fluorescent greens, and purple, as well as ghairy shrooms seem to do just fine in my tank, even at the top of the tank.

the green stripers melted even way at the bottom, and even in all sorts of shade...

[Horace]

So I guess it depends on the shrooms you have. Some softies like alot of light, Ricordia for example does pretty well with alot of light.

[twkenny]

Exactly. I have had res, blue, green and striped shrooms in my 55. I got rid of most of them because they were taking over....I now have MH and they seem to have slowed down some.

Grim knows his stuff. But, he'll be the first to admit that every tank is different. I had leathers growing so fast under T5's that I finally fragged them down to nothing, removed the "stalk" and replaced it with a frag. A year later I did it again.

You really cannot have "too" much light available. You can cut back easier than you can add.....remove reflectors, swap out bulbs, whatever.

Trust me, you will be happy with the T5's.

PRC, you can indeed run 4 54 watt T5's. You can run 16' of ANY kind of flourescent bulb with a 660. NO, VHO, T5, whatever. Mix them up as you wish. Thats' the beauty of the 660. Does that while running cool to the touch and not making a sound or interfering with the TV!

[twkenny]

Originally posted by Horace
Perhaps drop two of my lights and sell the ballasts and go with one 660 and run 4 instead of 6. Its theoretically about the same amount of watts, but the watts would be alot more intense out of only 4 bulbs....HMMMMMMM

That's EXACTLY what I did with my 55 and was very pleased with the results.

Guys...why would I say this stuff if I didn't mean it? I went to 3 x 250 BlueWave (electronic) driven 250's over my 125, along with 2 x 160 VHO. I'm losing the halides and going back to T5s. I MAY try a 10kk MH bulb before I swap back, but I'm not too interested in dumping another $250-$300 on metal halide bulbs.

IMO, and to answer the original post, T5's are the ticket!

[Horace]

I guess I gotta save myself a few bucks and buy myself a 660 sometime.

[twkenny]

Originally posted by Horace
I guess I gotta save myself a few bucks and buy myself a 660 sometime.

What do you have now?

[hahnmeister]

It says 6x54wattT5 in his sig...

When talking about softies, or for that matter shrooms...keep in mind that just because its a shroom even, doesnt mean it's low-light. Cobalt blue shrooms love being right under halides.