Best 20K or Blue DE Bulb?

[ChadT]

I am currently running the Phoenix 14K 250watt DE bulbs and I am not entirely happy with the color. The bulbs burn a bright white with barely any blue on my PFO HQI ballast and my corals look fairly dull. Actually, there is a point while the bulbs are warming up where they output plenty of blue and look great but once they get up to full temp the blue is gone.

So anyway I am thinking about switching bulbs to 20Ks to get that deep water blue look, does anyone have any suggestions? I keep mostly softie and LPS and want something that will really make the corals pop.

Either that or convince me I am going the wrong route and should perhaps swap out the 96watt 03 actinics (which are completely unnoticeable while the Phoenix are burning) for some 7100K actinics to add more blue to the Phoenix bulbs.

Someone please help, I have spent a small fortune on lighting and can't seem to find the right combo.

[danmcmahon]

I was thinking of getting Phoenix bolbs as well and getting rid pf the actinics but it sounds like they are not all that blue. I Would be running them on an Ice Cap Ballast. Dont know if that makes a difference.

[swashbuckler]

tagging on this thread- i have yet to find a deep "actinic" blue DE bulb- they all seem to burn white, especially with a magnetic HQI ballast.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by danmcmahon
I was thinking of getting Phoenix bolbs as well and getting rid pf the actinics but it sounds like they are not all that blue. I Would be running them on an Ice Cap Ballast. Dont know if that makes a difference.

They should be a bit more blue on an icecap ballast. The ballast won't drive them as hard as an M80 ballast will.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I notice the same. The HQI burns them brighter & whiter than an icecap...so the first & easiest I thought might be to swap out the ballast... but then you say you want to go 20,000K? And swap out Actinics for blue/7100s? This all makes no sense to me.

The pheonix bulb is one of the truly bluest blubs made. It has a peak in the 420nm range as large as a radium classic blue...this is the range that would equate closest to the 7100K blue... and this is still true on a HQI ballast. Now, I have not seen any drop in the output of the bulbs in this blue range over time...but what you might be seeing is something I saw change slowly over time...a drop in the 450nm range...which is more purple and closer to an actinic03 bulb. Most 14,000Ks are not strong in this area, as it is pretty much the main criteria used to distinguish a 14,000K from a 20,000K...and for some the only. The pheonix for example, has a near identical spectral graph to a radium in almosevery respect except for the 450nm peak...the radium, like most 20,000Ks, is strong in this purple range, while the pheonix is not. In fact, most 10,000Ks have a higher 450nm peak than a pheonix or other 14,000K...even yellower ones like Aqualine and XM.

Now, that being said, you might be perceiving the loss of this 450nm range like I did, esp with the HQI ballast. It makes the bulb look less blue and more white, and while it certainly might gain more white after breaking in, the blue seems unchanged and the purple does drop off...making the overall look seem like less blue, but Im willing to bet its the 420nm drop that you are seeing.

So, the best thing might be to add actinics to get that look back...or go with a 20,000K.

FWIW, IME, the Aqualine 20,000K is a fine bulb that has some peaks in the green and red spectrum, and not quite as blue as a radium, but plenty of purple. It might be a good place to start, but if you want more 'blue' than that, you might be looking at the XM 20,000Ks, which are very blue, but have a sucky output...or the classic blue radiums, which are excellent in every respect but longevity...they tend to burn out every 6 months or less...esp on HQI.

FWIW, I would use e-ballasts like icecap on any bluer bulb. They do maintain the PAR for longer and end up outperforming the HQI after time...esp with bluer bulbs. That alone might solve your problem.

[ChadT]

Basically I want more blue/purple in my setup to get better color from my corals. The Phoenix bulbs are supposed to be blue and looked fairly blue in the 150watt DE version. But since I have upgraded to the 250watters the color is pure white, very sterile.

So what should I do to add more blue? I have two 96watt CF Actinic 03 bulbs (very purple) that you cannot see when the halides are on. Would switching to a 20K bulb or swapping out the 03s for 7100ks, since they have better par, make more sense to get better color from my corals or should I try both? There are so many options.

[swashbuckler]

ChadT, if you desire more blue, i dont think you'll get it through halides- as i have yet to find a "blue" 20k DE (at least on mag HQI ballasts-which makes 20k bulbs turn white/yellow) i had a AB 20k in there, and at first it was a nice purple, but then became whiteish yellow after breakin.. go figure...

what i would suggest is throw in some 460nm/7100k blue PC bulbs, this will brighten up your tank immensely and add far more blue color than the yucky disco purple 420nm actinic 03.

however, you may notice a loss of "green" flourescence within your corals as they flouresce better under more 420nm...

that being said, yellows, oragnes, reds will increase in flourescenc under 7100k blue!

good luck in your decision....

[thrlride]

I can tell when I turn on actinics as it adds plenty of blue to the color. I'm using VHO URI Super Actinic R's.

[swashbuckler]

Originally posted by thrlride
I can tell when I turn on actinics as it adds plenty of blue to the color. I'm using VHO URI Super Actinic R's.

VHO is a totally different ballgame for sure... they have far more blue in them than PC actinic 03's... thats why i love my URI's... PC actinics are almost hopeless, and PC bulb makers have gotten all these years to make them better....but they are still lagging far behind the beauty of VHO actinics.

[thrlride]

I really like the bluish/white color of the phoenixs. I run my actinics in the morning and evening for dusk/dawn but just the phoenix's the rest of the time.

[ChadT]

Thanks for everyones suggestions, my Phoenix bulbs are still burning in so perhaps the blue will intensify. My eyes seem to play tricks, the longer I stare at the tank the less noticeable the blue becomes. Perhaps I should retro in some VHOs and ditch the CFs. I'll have one hell of a frankenstein light fixture, Coralife Aqualight Pro with upgraded 250hqis and retro VHOs.

[Aquaticman74]

Do like I did and mix with Radiums.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

That is very truer Chad...I notice that as well. After a while of looking at the tank I dont notice the blue as much, but then I turn on a room light and "whoah" it looks almost orange in comparison.

Perhaps you are simply the victim of your eyes adjusting to the blue. That being said, an electronic ballast rather than a HQI would help greatly. I checked in closer on my pheonix bulbs...some on HQI, some on Icecaps...the icecaps do look bluer.

Oh, and I agree, PC actinics are a waste. Depending on the ballast, you might be able to retrofit in some other bulbs like some VHO or T5 actinic to get better results since pheonix still lack the purple 420nm range. IME, that is really what gives the 'deep blue sea' look to a bulb...which means 20,000Ks since thats what you are looking for by definition then (either a 14,000K with actinics, or 20,000Ks).

My cousin just swapped out his three Aqualine 20,000Ks (on PFO HQI and still blue until the end I might add), for three XMs. He likes the intense blue as well. Maybe you should give these a try? They do have a lower output however...and any 20,000K might be a waste on a HQI ballast at that.