Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[gregt]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...36#post6235836

[NicoleC]

Thanks Bob! That's a very good description of your method.

[REEF-DADDY]

Here is an interesting observation. I am not sure if it relates to barebottom tanks or oversized skimmers. I am setting up a 280g BB with a g6, which has been running for 2 weeks with my live rock in the tank. My current tank is a 125 with a DSB. I am exchanging 10% of the water in both tanks everyday until Friday when I will move everything over. I take the water from the 125 at the very top and add it to the sump of the 280. Within 15 minutes I have about 1/8" of crud in the g6 collection cup. This is course is not happening in the reverse. Keep in mind my water quality in the 125 is good, the water is clear, and the corals are happy. So its a not like I draining visably dirty water. Just an observation.

[kimoyo]

Originally posted by AcroSteve

My skimmer is fed from my return pump that draws water from down low in the sump, after several sets of baffles. My flow through the sump is probably 42x the sump volume so it is very turbulent. Yet, I still see some crud accumulating on the glass at the water line. This looks like a confirmation of your previous statement.

Is the seperation and migration of the proteins that significant, even in light of my high turnover? If the sump is fed from the overflows of the tanks, wouldn't the level of protiens in the sump tend to be fairly consistant?

Hi Anthony,

I only read the first 14 pages but this had been asked a few times and I didn't see a clear answer. Even if the sump turnover isn't that high, say 5x-10x, is the protein separation that fast? With the fast flowing water and the turbulent crashing/mixing of the water and air into the sump wouldn't there be a very good mixing of water? If having a turbulent water surface in the display is counter-productive wouldn't it be the same in the sump? Thanks.

Paul

[carsonc]

Anthony I am aware that the aqua medic are hardly ever mentioned and then it is usually in a neg way.

I was not trying to make any points, I was just letting AJM know that he was not alone with his problem.

I do not believe that I have ever said the aqua medic is a great skimmer, all I have said is that it was easy for me to use.(with my limited knowledge of skimmers)

If you read the last paragraph of the post you will notice that I am not saying the aqua C are bad or that they will not work. I just think that they require more experience than some others.

Bob B's description of his getting the aqua c to work is an example of the need for a lot of experience when using this skimmer.

As far as habits go, it may be that someone has the habit of jumping to the defense of some items a little too quickly.

Carson

[jbphoenix]

Here is a pic of my EV-120 after about 3 days and my bio-load is not real high. I run a mag 7 on the skimmer and the pump is fed with raw overflow water from the tank. I have a ball valve on the mag 7 to cut back the flow just a little and run the air and gate valve on the skimmer wide open.

It took mine about a month to really get fully broken in but ever since that time it has been doing great.

-Jerry

[Anthony Calfo]

jumping too quickly?

Can you understand my post better by re-reading your statement:

"I did solve the problem. I gave the skimmer to someone else and bought an aqua medic t 1000. It is simple to set up and run."

Is there another was to read this than your endorsement of B as the solution to "problem" A?

As for my "defense" of any brand... or criticism of any brand for that matter... all productcs and services stand on their own merit.

The difference as I see it here is that I will give you specific reasons for why I feel either or any way about such things.

I simply saw your comment as a casual, unsubstantiated and generally not -helpful shot at one/any brand. I assure you that had you said the same thing about any other brand of skimmer you would have gotten the exact same reply from me.

Thats not a personal attack on you... just your post. We've all made bunk posts... this one of mine here may be one for that matter.

But popular brands/models will get popular accolades... and then inevitable detractors. But good and bad products alike products still stand on their own merit.

Now... that said, do you have something on topic and relevant to add to this thread about skimmer production/improvements?

I'm specifically asking (again) what you feel makes your current skimmer better in your current application than your last skimmer. That would be helpful. Truly.

[melev]

Jerry, in your picture, I see large bubbles in the riser neck, and foam just beneath the collection cup's lid. You stated it is at Day 3, but was that "day 3" of 30 days, or more like "after 27 days of breaking in, here is what it looks like at Day 3 after it had been recently cleaned"? The reason I ask is because I had an Aqua C EV-200 for a couple of years, and the bubbles in the reaction chamber / riser tube were finer than the ones in your picture.

I've found the EV series to be set it and forget it, when it comes to setting it up. Mine used a Mag 12 with a Y connection since there were two spray injectors. The outlet (gatevalve) was fully submerged with 1" of water above it, and there were no air valves to open or close. My skimmer had two holes drilled in the top of the black box, as it was an older model and I think I was the third owner of that skimmer. Each time someone upgraded, someone else bought it for their smaller setup, myself included.

One thing I've noticed with that skimmer, which I used for 2 years under the 55g, was that it would make a nice tower of bubbles, and then later it would have none for a while. There was no rhyme or reason to why this occured. If I didn't touch the tank all day long, didn't top off and didn't feed, I would just observe the skimmer and sometimes it would be full of bubbles, and other times it would be boiling in the box. I didn't really care all that much, because it always did the job. It was just kind of curious to me. And if it had been a problem, I wouldn't have used it that long. Maybe this is happening for others, and if so then maybe this will put their minds to rest.

[jbphoenix]

That photo is about 3 days since the last cleaning. Not sure about the bubble size but it does maintain the foam head and produce a medium dry skimate unless I stick my hand in the tank or during feeding when at that time the water/bubble level will go down close to being level with the upper platform of the skimmer. It recovers the foam head within about an hour after feeding and will maintain that foam head till I feed or put my hand in tank again.

The skimate produced is a coffee (or dark green tea) color. I try to clean it out after every 3 days or when the skimate starts to flow over into my external container, which it was just starting to do in the photo.

-Jerry

[BobB]

jpphoenix:

I'd second Melev's comment: those bubbles are quite large. You can reduce them by (1) decreasing the output flow (raises the water level in the skimmer reaction chamber); (2) increasing the injector flow (raises water level in chamber); and, (3) decreasing the air flow. If you're satisfied with the first two, try the air as your first way to decrease the bubble size.

Bob

[jbphoenix]

I will try cutting back on the air flow and see what I get. It took me a long time to get the water level set to an optimum level so I don't want to mess too much with the water flow. I will cur back the air some and give it a few days and see what happens..

-Jerry

[jbphoenix]

Bob, I was wondering if you have a pic of what your bubble size looks like? That would be helpful to take a look at what some others are seeing for bubble size.

-Jerry

[carsonc]

Anthony I will try to explain

In the part of the statement : "I did solve the problem" The problem was that I could not make the skimmer (aqua C ) produce anything at all for more than 1 day at a time. It would look like it was going to work and then the next day it was doing nothing . It would not restart unless I changed some of the adjustments, and then it would only work for a short time. Never long enough to even need cleaning.

Next part of statement : "I gave the skimmer to someone else and bought an aqua medic t 1000 ". This is what I did. I was so frustrated with the skimmer that it was better to just give it away than continue trying to get it to work. I did buy an aqua medic and it did work and it is easy for me to use.

None of this was intended as an endorsement of any thing. I do not have enough experience with reef keeping to tell anyone what they should do. I am usually the one asking the questions, many of which you have answered (Thank You).

It goes like this..... You are standing around some nice looking aquarium and some one says I bought one of the those (x-brand) skimmers and so far I have not been able to make it do much. And you reply: Yea I had one of those and I was never able to make it work either. The first person says: what did you do ? You reply :I gave it away and tried a different brand. First person says : what kind did you get and you tell them : First person asks if it works any better than the other one and you say : yes it works and is easy to use.

As far as any of this being unsubstantiated . It is only what happened to me.

The thing that makes the current skimmer better is that I am able to make it work, it produces gunk every day. I was not able to do that with the previous skimmer. I am not saying that the current skimmer is the best there is I am just saying that it worked for me.
Carson

[Amphora]

Thank you Anthony/all for the marvellous tips and advice.

After reading all the pages of this thread, I was starting to wonder if there would be anything on Aquamedic Turboflotor 1000, which I currently own. Now I see that I am not the only one.

My AM 1000 Turbo came with an Ocean Runner pump. My experience with this skimmer has been mixed. Sometime it collects a good amount of skimmate and at other times it runs on the too dry side. The accompanying instruction sheet was of no help. Anyway, after reading this forum I realize I was partly to blame for the somewhat poor results. The pump is not getting ideal overflow water, there are bioballs and various filter pads on the way. I am now trying to rectify these shortcomings thanks to this joint effort. However, something still puzzles me about the Turboflotor. There was an extension neck piece in the packing. When I put this on, the collection cup height is increased. However the bubble/water interface remains low relative to this extended neck and nothing is collected. Instead, I run it with the shorter neck, which was installed at the factory. Last month I discovered something about the ocean runner pump. There is a grey piece of plastic which restricts the water sucked by the pump, but it is removable. I removed it and tried the skimmer with the increased water. As I predicted, the collection cup was filled with water in a few seconds. Then I remembered the extension neck piece. I put it on and the result was better but I still had to fiddle with the output valves to attain the correct height in the neck. I was surprised with this result and I could not understand why the pump was restricted in the first place. Notwithstanding this, I had to put the restrictor back a few days later when the skimmer started to overflow and I could not prevent it even though I completely opened the valves to lower the height of the bubble/water column in the neck.

So is there anyone out there who had experince with a Turboflotor 1000 which runs in conjuntion with an Ocean Runner pump? I am quite puzzled by this restrictor piece and I can not understand why Aquamedic chose to throttle its pump back? With the restrictor in place and the valves in the fully closed position to increase the height of the bubble/water interface, the output through the skimmer is pathetic. The neck extender piece and the restrictor piece in the pump make me believe that the skimmer has greater potential but I am not sure how to do that.

[BobB]

Originally posted by jbphoenix
Bob, I was wondering if you have a pic of what your bubble size looks like? That would be helpful to take a look at what some others are seeing for bubble size.

-Jerry

Hi Jerry--

I'll take one tonight and post tomorrow. To give you an idea: my bubbles are about 1 to 2 mm diameter, coalescing to larger bubbles of ca. 3-4 mm right before the collecting column. BTW, I prefer to collect wet foam, thinking wet causes less blockage of the collecting tube than does dry foam.

Bob

[Randall_James]

I too have better luck staying on the "wet" side of my foam. I collect so much particulate in the neck running dry that it stops collection in just a couple days and the residue gets up to 1mm thick. Wet skim rinses this into the collection cup. My skimmate volume is about 1 qt per 24 hrs like this. I wish there was an accurate way to describe the color or density of the skim but if you put a pencil eraser in the fluid, it would be visible at 1"

[gtrestoration]

Maybe I'm "overskimming" but to be honest I don't see much difference in performance if I don't clean the neck every few days and let it go a couple weeks. I just dump the collection cup every 2-3 days and clean the neck every couple weeks.

Here's a statement from another board (also an active member here) which interests me.

It might (but have no data for it) turn out that dry skimming removes more sludge because the fisrt layer of sludge could might act as a sludge "magnet" removing relatively more sludge.

I also tried isolating the skimmer pump in a internal sump container to take water direct from one tank's overflow. I did see an increase in larger particulates in the cup but not really any more "liquids".

SteveU

[Randall_James]

I think that it was pretty much determined that a fine layer of build up is in fact of some benefit (something for the bubbles to hang on to).
To much however impedes the skimming process and in fact blocks the flow of the protien from being pushed out over the top of the neck.
Dry skimming on my skimmers (1 venturi and one becket) seems to accelerate this build up of particulates.

I suppose it is a question of what is "to much" of this build up and I would imagine it varies from skimmer to skimmer.

[BobB]

Hi Jerry,

Here's a photo of my 150 bubbles. The skimmate you see is after 48 hours, and there's more in the waste bucket.



I don't think this shot does the bubble size much justice, so you'll have to take my word that the bubbles are minute.

Good luck,

Bob

[bsackamano]

Bob, Nicole, & ajm, my experience with my EV-180 has been identical to yours. I finally got mine going after upgrading the mag7 to a mag9.5. The gate valve is wide open and there is no valve between the pump and the skimmer. The only thing I adjust is the air valve, which unfortunately makes it SUPER sensitive. I've had it dialed in perfectly several times (coffee looking skimmate up to the drain in 24 hrs) but I'll see it loafing and can't resist cracking open the air a hair. Then the next time I check it it's overflowing. So I finally ordered a (brass) valve with a finer adjustment as reccommended by Fred_J a few months ago: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113403. Depending on how this works I might try cutting back the water a bit too.

[jbphoenix]

Bob, I cut the air off for the JG valve completely using the JG ball valve I put on the unit. It is hard to tell in the photo, but the bubble size is much smaller now and what you see in the cup is from a little less than 24 Hrs. after cleaning.

I am now getting more skimate production than before since I cut off the air from the JG valve. Thanks for the tip!

-Jerry

[BobB]

Jerry: The bubbles look much finer. Good. I may be misinterpretting your post, but if you completely shut off the air: not so good. Could you achieve equal or finer bubbles by opening the air valve a bit and reducing the outflow gate valve?

Bob

[NicoleC]

Bob,

He's got the extra ozone fitting, which is just a hole and fitting when you get it. I also plugged mine up -- without doing so you just get too much air.

[jbphoenix]

Nicole is right Bob, I just shut off the air that was coming through the JG fitting and left the main air valve open all the way.

Nicole you are right about the JG fitting letting in too much air. Once I closed the ball valve I installed on the port all the way.. the bubble size went down and the skimate production went up!

-Jerry

[Paul79936]

I have found that it is also important with the EV-180 to be sure that air can flow freely through out of the collection cup. I had where mine would skim very well until it filled up the collection cup, and then only produce a little.

I found that the drain hose from the collection cup had a dip in it and would fill with water. This would not shut down the skimmer, the air pressure could force the skimmate through the hose, but it WOULD reduce production.

Part of the problem with tuning the EV-180 is that it often LOOKS like it is working when it is not.