Carpet Amenome at a...

rudyistaken · #1 10/26/2005, 06:19 AM

Get this a black Voilitan. I came the spines sticking out of the mouth.

Question is how large do the fish have to be to be kept with a carpet and be safer. I have tangs and a miniatus grouper in there. Tank is 135 gallon

M.Maddox · #2 10/26/2005, 08:14 AM

Nothing is safe from carpets

They will snag anything they can catch.

bigworm616 · #3 10/26/2005, 02:51 PM

you dont by any chance have a picture do you, that would definitly be worth a thousand words.

M.Maddox · #4 10/26/2005, 04:19 PM

Do a google image search for haddoni, or haddoni environment, you will see pics of them in the sand, in 6" of water or less at low tide, with fish as big as they are or bigger that they've snagged from the receding tide.

This also goes to show you that anemones DO NOT LIVE in the same nich as corals! These animals should not be kept together!

phender · #5 10/26/2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M.Maddox
.....This also goes to show you that anemones DO NOT LIVE in the same nich as corals! These animals should not be kept together!

Sorry Michael, you were wrong on the other thread and you are wrong on this one. S. haddoni don't live with corals. They live in sandy areas at the base of the reefs and sometimes in shallow grass flats, like in those pictures. They also don't live with clownfish on those flats. Does that mean anemones don't live with clownfish either!

E. quadricolor, H. magnifica, S. mertensii and some H. crispa live in and among corals in the wild. You don't even have to look very hard to find pictures of them doing just that. Look in almost every clownfish/anemone book ever published that has a wide angle shot of an anemone on a reef.

Oh and Michael, we don't get French benefits either.

Mercutio · #6 10/26/2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Oh and Michael, we don't get French benefits either.

Nemo's Dada · #7 10/27/2005, 01:23 AM

"Oh and Michael, we don't get French benefits either.'

traveller7 · #8 10/27/2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rudyistaken
Question is how large do the fish have to be to be kept with a carpet and be safer. I have tangs and a miniatus grouper in there. Tank is 135 gallon

Apparently an off topic discussion has spilled over into this thread, lets focus on answering the above question:

First, there are a few carpet species that have proven very adept in catching aquarium fish, S. haddoni and S. helianthus for example.

Second, there is no rule of thumb to fish size, the variables are anemone health, physiology of the fish, etc.

If you keep a Stichodactyla sp. plan on it eating fish in your tank and be pleased if it actually survives and does not eat your fish.

rudyistaken · #9 10/27/2005, 09:29 AM

I am realizing this is a dumb idea to try to keep this thing, but for the sake of argument would I be able to put a clown in there with the Amenome to keep other fish away from it?

If so what kind of clown would be best?

traveller7 · #10 10/27/2005, 09:52 AM

It would be best to get a positive ID on the carpet species, but the assumption would be S. haddoni.

In my limited experience, Tomato complex, A. clarkii, and Maroons keep fish away from their home best. Although A. polymnus is a natural match with S. haddoni, mine don't seem to care who comes near their anemone as long as it is not a clown.

M.Maddox · #11 10/27/2005, 10:36 AM

Notice I said "niche". Please look up the definition of "niche" in relation to biology.

I also said that S. haddoni's don't live with coral - and you say "sorry Michael, they don't live with corals" as though I said they did?

Anthony Calfo will be just as quick to tell you not to keep mobile Cnidarians with sessile ones, as well (aka anemones with corals) for long term success.

As I previously stated, S. haddoni's will kill whatever they can snag! Nothing is safe longterm, IMO

Toddrtrex · #12 10/27/2005, 10:38 AM

I agree with Scott, my polymnus pair ( sorta pair, she is still playing hard to get) do not seem to get too upset if someone else trys to still food from their Haddoni. They pretty much just watch. ( Knock on wood, in the 6 yrs I have had it, it has only eaten a YWG )

rudyistaken · #13 10/27/2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

( Knock on wood, in the 6 yrs I have had it, it has only eaten a YWG )

What do you keep it with and what is a YWG?

Alos what size tank.

Toddrtrex · #14 10/27/2005, 10:58 AM

Sorry, YWG = Yellow watchman Goby.

The tank is my 58g besides the saddlback clowns (polymnus) I have a lawnmower blenny, Flame angel and a LemonPeel Angel
( they get along fine -- had both for 2 yrs now ) Tank is lit by 2 *175 MH and 2 *96 PC.

rudyistaken · #15 10/27/2005, 12:01 PM

What kind is he?
http://www.cichlidgallery.com/album241/100_0057_IMG

rudyistaken · #16 10/27/2005, 12:02 PM

Volitan got slimed
http://www.cichlidgallery.com/album241/100_0060_IMG

phender · #17 10/27/2005, 12:26 PM

From your pic, I would say 99% sure that you have a haddoni carpet. I no longer trust them with any grazing type fish (tangs, angels, gobies, etc.) they all seem to get caught sooner or later, even with a night light and a pair of clowns. I have alway kept Sebae clowns (A. sebae) a close relative of saddlebacks with my haddoni. I have seen them appear to actually herd fish towards the anemone. I doubt that is actually happening, but they sure don't chase fish away. More aggresive clowns might make a difference.
OTOH, fish that take food from the water column (pseudochromis, hawkfish, damsels) seem to be able to avoid the anemone, IME.

traveller7 · #18 10/27/2005, 12:29 PM

Looks to me like a S. haddoni from that picture.

keefsama2003 · #19 10/27/2005, 12:36 PM

looks just like my old haddoni and boy did he like to eat.

lost 4 fish inclusing a 6" yellow tang to him a nice kole tang and a marine betta

phender · #20 10/27/2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M.Maddox
Notice I said "niche". Please look up the definition of "niche" in relation to biology.

I also said that S. haddoni's don't live with coral - and you say "sorry Michael, they don't live with corals" as though I said they did?

Anthony Calfo will be just as quick to tell you not to keep mobile Cnidarians with sessile ones, as well (aka anemones with corals) for long term success.

As I previously stated, S. haddoni's will kill whatever they can snag! Nothing is safe longterm, IMO

Biologically speaking, two different species don't normally occupy the same niche in the same habitat. That would cause competition for living space and food, which would result in the extinction of the organism less adapted to that niche. The reason anemones and corals CAN live together is because they don't occupy the same niche. Clownfish and anemones don't fill the same niche either. Does that mean I can't keep them together?

If you are going to use quotation marks, you actually have to copy the same thing that was said. I didn't say, "sorry Michael, they don't live with corals". I said that you were wrong, period, then a new sentence. You said anemones don't live with corals in the wild and used S. haddoni to try to prove your point. My point was, yes, haddoni don't live with corals in nature, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other species of anemone that do .

I value Anthony Calfo's opinions on keeping aquarium specimens long term. But, you said anemones don't live with corals in the WILD. Keeping polyp eating butterfly fish in a reef tank is not a very good idea either, but that doesn't mean they don't live together on the reef.