Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[gnikoli]

I don't know enough to kindle this debate, but I do have a question about wet v. dry. Seems to me that bubble size has more to do with the type of waste removed than the wet v. dry thing. I can dial down the air in my recirc skimmer to produce uniform, small bubbles and either raise the level close to the top, in which case there is only a little accumulation around the top of the neck or lower the level and accumulate 'dry" waste in the top 3" of neck. One removes more water from the system and produces lighter liquid skimmate than the other, but am I not removing the same class of waste in either case? Maybe even a few larger particles with the higher level?

[melev]

I'll leave the punchline for someone else.

That is very interesting about the body/pump size of the ASM models. I've never looked into them at all, to be honest. I come across them often enough as sump building requires that I know the total footprint of each skimmer, but I don't need nor desire to know their height nor the kind of pump that they use.

The ER 12-2 is a monster, no doubt about it. It is 12" wide and 30" tall, and is rated for a 500g system. It uses two Sedra 5000 pumps. I know there is a larger Sedra pump out there, but I've never even considered replacing them with Sedra 9000s. If I did, would my skimmer be rated for 750g or larger perhaps? Interesting thought, that is to be sure.

I want the absolute peak performance out of my skimmer, that is the bottom line. Mine is sitting in 10.5" of water depth, with the intake of the two pumps 7" beneath the surface. I used to have the skimmer raised up on a 3" stand, but detritus was collecting there. I'm going to make a new stand with 4 feet instead, so I can clean under it more easily, if you think the pumps being closer to the surface of the skimmer section will make a bigger difference. What are your thoughts?

[Anthony Calfo]

good points Marc...

I feel/agree (as I think you are asking/implying) that properly tuning/installing a skimmer will give you far more mileage (skimmate production) than simply buying a bigger skimmer, pump for the skimmer, etc.

And for me... I would/do indeed carry my skimmers along with upgraded (size) tanks. Usually just adding a second mid-size/price skimmer to support the other, rather than scrapping all and buying a new larger skimmer that meets some manufacturer's ratings.

I do not believe (I don't even see how) mfgs do extensive research to come to their ratings. In their defense... they cannot do it practically. How do they know what bioload will be put upon any given system? Puffers or gobies? Water change man, or never did a water change man? etc.

The ratings are just loose guidelines.

If you believe skimmers work at all and are helpful/necessary... then buy the biggest you can afford, but don;t anguish if your model is rated for 180 gallons and your tank is a 200 gall.

[carsonc]

Turbofloaters can work well... but could not be called "plug & play" in my opinion (compared to other competitive brands/models).

Without the extra babysitting though... they are just a bit too inconsistent/tedious for me.

I can't believe it I can do something that Anthony has trouble with.
I have to be the worst skimmer operator there is , could not get an Aqua C ev180 to work and I could not get an E R clone to work in its stock configuration or with all the mods.
I put an T 1000 in the sump and had good skimmate in less than a day. Go figure
As good as it did work, with the info from this one thread it now produces exactly 2X as much as when first installed.

I did not know Bomber lived in a hole.
Carson

[mr. maroon clown]

Carsonc do you feed the turbofloater from the overflow, or do you have a pump in the sump feeding the turbofloater?

[carsonc]

mr. maroon clown I built one of the horizontal overflow boxes that Anthony talks about, it has 2 bulkheads thru the back wall and one of these is plumbed to the intake of the T 1000, again as Anthony says
Carson

[Anthony Calfo]

I'm delighted to hear I'm wrong about that turbofloater for you, Carson Truly so

[WarEagleNR88]

My turbofloater feed comes directly from my built-in overflow. I have the overflow split into three separate lines. Line 1 goes into the skimmer via a ball valve fully open and empties into the sump. Line 2 goes into the fuge and is then returned to the sump. Line 3 empties into the sump. my return pump puts about 600gph back in the tank. i've got it gauged so the skimmer gets the brunt of the overflow (~500gph), the fuge gets a little bit of the flow (~60gph) and the sump gets the least of the overflow (~40gph).

The best thing for the turbofloater Ii've done with help from this thread is to pump up the air pressure. Take an air pump (using a cheapo 30G air pump), a brass needle valve from Ace hardware, and hook up the pump to the needle valve to the skimmer's air intake. You'll get an immediate boost in skimmate production. From there you fine tune the skimmate using the needle valve (for bubble size) and the two valves on the skimmer outlet (for bubble/water height).

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by Bomber
Dry skim is the product of a bubble building up a thicker coat of the same things, just thicker. Which takes longer, the dirtier the bubble is less is taken up, the more is missed on each pass and returns to the main system.

A fresh clean surface - bubble - will pick up the most the fastest. The more fresh clean bubbles you have - wet - the more you pick up faster and the less passes by and is returned to the main system.

One doesn't pick up a different thing just because it's clean or dirty. Dirty just takes longer to build up that coat on the bubble and misses more on each pass through the skimmer. Which cause more to be missed, which causes higher levels in the main system.

Thank you Bomber.

With all due respect Anthony, your description of the differences between wet and dry production by a skimmer are rather simplistic. Yes I know, for the better good of the average reader here, but you have to be careful because you'll help those same readers form strong opinions that are inaccurate.

[Anthony Calfo]

understood and agreed. The very reason/essence for information gathering from a wide range of sources to make an intelligent consensus.

[lillibirdy]

I very much appreciate the technical reasons for things to be dummied down a bit for me! Many times I just can't wrap my brain around the scientific or more difficult explanations. So thanks.

[Anthony Calfo]

for more information/perspective... there is the start of what will likely be a good thread from the (very) experienced Randy Holmes-Farley with a link to an article he wrote on the topic:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...15#post5514715

[mr. maroon clown]

This thread is great Thanks Anthony, Wareagle, and Carsonc for all of your helpful advice. Carsonc do you use the ocean runner 2700? If not what brand pump?

[carsonc]

Yes mine originally came with the Rio and it did not perform well at all. I bought the OR that comes with the hardware to connect to the T 1000
Carson

[bvoss]

I have been following this thread since it was a pup. I detected some notes of skepticism regarding the possibility of pulling a cup of skimmate a day out of a system, and I wasn't too sure it was possible myself.

I used the advice on this thread when I build my new 180 after a tragic tank crash on my original 90 gal SPS system.

All I have is 200lbs of well-cured live rock and 4 fish in my system. I went with a full length "Calfo overflow" and a monster ASM G6 skimmer. I am pulling out 2 cups of wet skimmate a day. Before I was lucky to pull that out in a week.

I used to use Ozone at least 12 hours a day to hold ORP above 350. Now I am holding 360 with almost no ozone at all.

Life is good. No algae blooms or disasters. The normal tank cycling plagues are muted and seem to be passing quickly. I am now an enthusiastic supporter of careful surface skimming and BIG skimmers. I just hope I have enough nutrients left over for the fuges!

Thanks for the wisdom Anthony.

Bill

[mr. maroon clown]

carsonc does the ocean runner 2700 accomodate the black needle wheel real good or did you have problems? and where did you purchase that 2700 with the t1000 kit?

[carsonc]

mr. maroon clown The 2700 is a "complete kit" for the T 1000, it comes with the impeller and all the stuff you need to connect it to the skimmer. It is a # 2500 pump with the extra stuff to connect to the skimmer, they just gave it a different # (2700)
There were no problems changing from the RIO
Carson

[mr. maroon clown]

excellent im going to buy me a 2700

[captbunzo]

Woah... And again I say... WOAH!!!

First let me say that I am rather impressed with the excellent information, extensive time, and occasional comedic interruption of this thread. I just finished reading all 2-flipping-9 pages. Again, woah!

Good thread, I enjoyed it much. I am a (relatively) newbie reefkeeper. I setup a 29G tank w/10 G sump about 3 months ago. For the last 2-3-4 weeks, I have been playing with a gravity-fed skimmer that I built based on some threads I had been following.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=628296

Here is a thread I started about the skimmer I built...

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=641513

I have a question here, but that may wait for another post...

[Anthony Calfo]

You have summed up our mission and purpose here in this forum, Paul

Informative and occasionally comedic... all with the hopes to educate effectively and share/grow, evolve as aquarists

[captbunzo]

Ok. So let me think this out a bit.

First, some background. I built a skimmer that I was misnaming a downdraft skimmer. With a little more information, I know that name means something else. So perhaps I should simply call it a Gravity-Fed, Air-Driven Skimmer.

(Current design described here...)

Anyhow, basically I built a small, bottomless acrylic box. I added a input port for water overflowing from the tank. And then I added a foam riser tube and an inverted funnel with a clear hose attached to it. I added epoxy inside the box to force all air to go straight up the skimmer tube. Then I added an upside down powerhead and a limewood airstone.

Here is how it works: (or sort of works)

1. Water enters the box from the tank (after being pumped up from the sump by a Mag 7).

2. As it falls, it pulls a pile of air with it and creates some bubblage in the skimmer box. The upside down powerhead is a Maxi-Jet 600 with the input water screen situated directly in this stream of water/air coming from the tank overflow. The powerhead purees these air bubbles as they go through the powerhead.

3. A limewood airstone adds more air to the mix. Currently, this airstone is being powered by a cheap 2-port air pump from walmart. The two ports are T-ed together t push all the air through the one stone. This could be modified to put a single stone on each port.

4. Foam rises in the tube and ejects out of the hose into a collection container to the side of the sump.

5. The skimmer seems to put out some pretty good wet foam - sort of a ice tea looking mixture.

6. Water exits underneath the front and back walls of the skimmer box, each being a 1/2 inch shorter then the side walls.



Question (I think there is a question in there)

So, for my question. This is a little general, but basically I am curious how I can improve the performance of this skimmer. For more background, you might read through this thread (1 page) on the history I have had with the skimmer so far.

I have an orange sun coral that get's fed every night, so I need to get this sucker performing really well to keep up with all of the food that ends up floating around.

At this point I can consistently get a good solid wet foam. I would like, however, to figure out how to get some dry foam. By the nature of how this skimmer is made, the gate valve modification doesn't make sense. It has occurred to me that I might be able to add some rock rubble, a filter pad, or something in the way of the water exit openings of the skimmer to accomplish something similar.

Anyhow, any thoughts?

Sorry for being a bit inspecific and having such a freaky wierd skimmer design to work with. This skimmer has been an experiment to see what kind of skimmer I could produce with spending VERY little money. And I am, thus forth, pretty proud of the results...

[Anthony Calfo]

My first question is... how good does it smoke?

Second question... where is the carburetor?

Hmmm.... never mind. Back to skimmer discussions.

[captbunzo]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
My first question is... how good does it smoke?

Second question... where is the carburetor?

Hmmm.... never mind. Back to skimmer discussions.

I get that email telling me I have a response. I go to check it and I find... SARCASM!!!

Grrrr... Glad to see that your sense of humor is going strong.

(hehe - I appreciate your time and effort - don't get me wrong...)

[mwood]

I have a DIY skimmer that I thought about getting AC's opinion on, but then I got worried about getting honesty. Can be worse than sarcasm.

[herefishyfishy2]

Has anyone added a needle valve to the input of the venturi on a LifeReef VS2-24? I was always satisfied with my 1/2 of a collection cup per day output, but this thread has me thinking and scheming
Any other mods anyone has done. I am running a Mag 9.5 in sump along with the skimmer itself. Auto top-off keep the level constant so skimming is pretty consistent. I am also running ozone. TIA