lethargic puffer, any ideas

[reef fanatic]

I got a stars and stripes puffer on Thursday for my 75g and he is the lone fish in the tank right now. In the LFS tank and the first night I had him he was all over exploring. Since Fri. morning he has been wedged behind a powerhead or laying on the bottom . When I tried to feed frozen, he went for it but spit most back out. I fed 3 rosy reds and he gobbled up and swam around for a bit before returning to a spot. In the LFS he had a grouper and a Moray eel with him. I figure he may have been showing more defense due to the fish in the other tank, but should he be more active if he is lone fish? Any help in your experiences is greatly appreciated.... Scott

P.S. If all is ok with him, what do you all think of a Bursa trigger to go with him? They will go into a 200 gallon in 12-15 months

[ellamaeruth]

Puffers are generally docile. They don't swim much. As with any fish, they find a home and spend quite a bit of time there. Don't feed for a couple of days and try again. I only feed mine 2-3 times per week. The more you force the food, the less likely he is to eat!

Does he appear to have signs of illness or stress? spots, slimy, heavy breathing, no interest in humans? Puffers are like dogs in water: they love humans and make eye contact and may give 'kisses' on the glass.

How big is this guy? how long had he been at the lfs? what were they feeding him?

--jenny

[reef fanatic]

thanks for your reply jenny, The puffer is about 2-3 inches and doesnt really look to be too stressed except what you would expect for just being put in. He was in the LFS about 2 weeks. He ate frozen krill and rosy reds the night I picked him up (Thurs) at the LFS . On Fri. afternoon he seemed to spit out frozen silversides/krill but eat live rosy's. When the lights were turned on this afternoon he did stroll out and look at me and watch me go over towards the "live food" as if he was begging to get one =)). I guess he was just much more active in the LFS and not sure if I attribute that to smaller tank and more fish in that tank or that he does not need to be defensive by himself. My wife almost sccoped him out thinking he was "stuck" to the Powerhead on Fri.
Thanks again, Scott

[Puffer Queen]

Scott,

The behavior sounds very normal to me. Just watch the puffer closely to make sure that he/she does not develop any opportunistic parasites or bacteria from the stress of the move & new environment.

Pro Salt's frozen prawn (looks like frozen ghost shrimp), shrimp or squid are often favorites of my 30+ puffers.

I would hold off putting anything else in the 75 gallon with the puffer right now. Let the puffer get used to his surroundings & start eating non live food consistently. If you do add another fish with the puffer in the future - please quarantine the additon for at least 4 weeks.

Best of luck with your new arothron hispidus!

Kelly

[reef fanatic]

thanks for the reply PQ, what fish do you keep with puffers? I was thinking Bursa Trigger ( the nicer one, R. verrucuso) or maybe a TBD Filefish or Cowfish. I know it is still too early to add but I like to research my fish additions for weeks before I add them, so that is why I ask now........
Thanks, Scott

[Puffer Queen]

I keep various rabbitfish, tangs, soldierfish, groupers, hawkfish, porkfish & sharks. With 3000 gallons, I do have the "luxury" of being able to monitor & move fish if there is an aggression issue

I would fear for the cowfish as puffers can be aggressive eaters & might out compete the cow for food. There is also the issue of potential toxin being released when stressed or death.

What is a TBD filefish? Are you talking about a tasseled ? I would fear that the puffer would pick on the tassels. Puffers are curious creatures & will often try anything once - heaters, power cords, powerheads, buried fish (wrasses) in the sand, fingers, artifical/synthetic corals, sponge filters, other fishes' appendages or streamers,........

Hope this helps.
Kelly

[Clown926]

instead of filefish maybe a trigger.

[Puffer Queen]

In almost fifteen years, I've never kept a trigger in my display tanks. I did "adopt a 14 inch sick one" several years back but it never made it past my extensive quarantine period.

I've had fellow friends & hobbyists that have. Triggers do eat aggressively like the puffers & if you did obtain one of the less aggressive ones, there should be a good chance to keep them together.

I forgot to mention that many filefish do have specialized diets & while they may eat well in your aquarium for 1 -2 years, many hobbyists report waking up to find them dead.

Best of luck.

Kelly

[ellamaeruth]

Scott

I keep a regal tang, niger trigger, a mated pair of bluejaw triggers, and a volitans with my puffer (porcupine). Stars and Stripes get VERY large in time. I've heard of them weighing in around 5 pounds!

Please put a sponge or other cover on your powerhead if there isnt already one. I've seen too many puffers die from getting stuck on/sucked in powerheads. It's very sad.

My puffers favorite foods are a frozen seafood mix from the grocery store that contains shrimp, scallops, squid, cuttlefish, and mollusks. I do means he loves them. He will also eat any frozen fish foods as well. It took me about 3 weeks to train him. Please try to get him off live foods. I can give you the info on how I trained him to eat anything I feed, if you're interested.

Good luck
--jenny

[Puffer Queen]

Sponge is a good idea but many times the sponge gets chewed on/spit out & you end up with clogged overflows, powerheads, etc.

I would recommend another covering for the intake as well as the power cord if it is in the water - i.e pvc pipe or strong plastic hose wrapped around the cord & a protective cover/strainer over the other powerhead strainer. Check these frequently as they too will often get chewed or destroyed. I can't keep ANY powerheads in with my 12 - 28 inch puffers. They will EAT a powerhead in less than 24 hours and it is not for a lack of food! - believe me I have seen it all in 15 years of raising puffers

Best of luck.

Kelly

[ellamaeruth]

If it were my tank, I'd consider adding (and no, I don't like to add stuff) vitamin c and/or a general vitamin type additive such as Zoe. Garlic is always good. Adding it to the water even without food, stimulates appetite and helps his natural immune system.

JMO, for what it's worth.

--jenny

[gallivanmk]

Not trying to steal your thread reef fanatic, but ellamaeruth I am in the process of trying to get a porcupine puffer on frozen foods. He goes up to them and sucks them in, but chews and spits it back out. I fed him some ghost shrimp yesterday and he chewed them for a minute and then decided he liked it.... I am very interested in how you got your puffer on frozen. I have tried everything I can think of (garlic, etc.) with no luck....

[Puffer Queen]

Whole squid & frozen prawn by Pro Salt have always worked for me.

Vitamin B12 is an appetite stimulant, as well as garlic - I have used both many times over the last 10 years with great success.

Is the puffer in with any other fish?

Kelly

[ellamaeruth]

This is what I did to train my puffer. I bought these tongs http://www.petsmart.com/global/produ...=1124055020657
and used them exclusively for feeding the puffer. Every two or three days, I'd put garlic in the tank and show him the bright yellow tongs through the glass. Then I'd hold thawed food (my favorite is squid or cuttlefish bc they're wiggly) that's been soaked in garlic. Stick it right in his face and in his mouth if you have to. If he doesnt take it, dont force him just wait two or three more days. After a week, he'll be really hungry and eat anything you feed him. Get him used to a variety of foods before you stop using the tongs. After a couple of weeks, you can just show him the tongs and he'll come to the surface to eat. Then you can taper off the garlic and stop the tongs. Months later, I can still show him the tongs and he goes nuts!

[gallivanmk]

That sounds like a good idea. This puffer was kept by someone else for a long period of time and if I had a way to get in touch with that person I would. He goes nuts when I pull out a container (like the kind flakes come in). I wasn't really thinking about it and I noticed that he was going crazy in front of the container for the krill. Unfortunately, he did not want to eat the krill. I don't think it is possible that the guy kept him on live food, because he is sooo fat and healthy looking. Thank you for your suggestion, that is what I will do!

[reef fanatic]

pufferQueen and Ella,
I am sorry I did not tell the TBD filefish. I am still thinking so I was implying "to be determined" as TBD. I originally wanted a tassled file or a green file but am still swaying towards a Bursa Trigger since he may fit better in the mix as far as food competition. I also may look into the tong idea as I wnt him to know when it is "feedin' time", LOL
Ella, can you send me your Food recipe or do you get a certain "brand" of your seafood mix at the grocery store?
Email is fine sherndon613@aol.com
Thanks , Scott

[ellamaeruth]

Tassles are fun fish, but I wouldn't put a tilefish in with a puffer. IMO, the tiles are very finnicky eaters, not very competitive for food, and not as hardy. Yes, there are exceptions. You will have a lot of room in the 200g to put a small assortment of other aggressive fishes in there.

There is another site I'd recommend you browse. www.grimreefers.com . In no way do I endorse that site, other than I have found lots of help there seeing as it is a more specialized group of hobbyists. It is also primarily male, so be aware of some topics and comments being a little 'off color'

--jenny

[reef fanatic]

Well to update..... The puffer seems much more "lively" today. I have not fed him since yesterday like some of you suggested and he seems to be out more and colors look a bit darker. I guess it was a combo of being newly introduced and full from being fed more . I am gonna try to add a pic, but it has been awhile since I have added a pic, so I hope it works.
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions

[Puffer Queen]

Scott,

Nice looking puffer! How could anyone not think puffers are cute?

In your earlier posting, you referred to him as a stars & stripes. The puffer is an arothron reticularis (reticulated puffer).

Many confuse the two but the reticulated puffer does not get as big as the stars & stripes (35 cm versus 50 cm). The easy way to differentiate the two is the reticulated always has lines around the eyes, face and body back to behind the pectoral fins. Spots are limited to the area behind the pec fins & on the tail. Stars & stripes come in many different patterns but will have spots any where. Stars & stripes can have circling around the eyes but you will notice spots on the head.

Care of them is the same. I have 3 of the reticulated (6 inches to 14 inches) and 2 of the star & stripes (6 to 16 inches.)

Best of luck with your puffer friend.

Kelly

[spamin76]

Originally posted by Puffer Queen
Scott,

Pro Salt's frozen prawn (looks like frozen ghost shrimp), shrimp or squid are often favorites of my 30+ puffers.

Do you have 30 puffers now???

I know 3,000 gallons is a lot of room to work with - but that is a LOT of bioload - how do you skim all that? Puffers are piggies!

Are they all large species or are some large and some little Canthigaster species?

[spamin76]

Originally posted by reef fanatic
thanks for the reply PQ, what fish do you keep with puffers? I was thinking Bursa Trigger ( the nicer one, R. verrucuso) or maybe a TBD Filefish or Cowfish. I know it is still too early to add but I like to research my fish additions for weeks before I add them, so that is why I ask now........
Thanks, Scott

Once you get the 200 set up, I think I bursa would be a good trigger choice - bursas are the least aggressive Rhinecanthus species. They are aggressive feeders - but since puffers inhale their food the trigger may not get enough to eat if you only feed large chunks - just chop up anything you feed so the puffer cannot suck down the whole piece or feed little foods like brine shrimp or plankton. If you do that simple thing I think that would work just fine.

There are also a few other trigger species that would go well in this mix - I think a pinktail would make a great tank mate as well - they are a bit less aggressive than bursas. Pinktails are great additions to semi-aggressive fish only tanks(and many people even manage to keep them in reef tanks). There are a few other good trigger species which are less hardy but still would work well - these are all smaller triggers that only get in the 6-10" - the whole Xanthicthus family - crosshatch, blue throat, and sargassum. Or as they probably should be called, Cro$$hatch .

[Puffer Queen]

Yes, I do have 30 puffers now.

I have had 5 different puffer species spawn.

I have not kept any of the canthigaster species. My puffers range in size from 3 inches to 28 inches.

I do frequent 10 -15 % water changes weekly. I use skimmers, refugiums, DSB buckets & ozone on all of my non QT systems.

Kelly

And yes they are piggies.....they eat better than me on most days

[spamin76]

Yeah - I have a bag of shrimp in my freezer for my fish, not for me

So these are all full size puffers - wow - that is really awesome.

Do you have a Mappa by any chance? Do you have a favorite?

Eventually I would like to get a Mappa or a black Arothron.

[Puffer Queen]

I do have an arothron mappa & a couple of the black morph arothron nigropunctatus.

I have found through my own experience & from other hobbyists asking for help that the black nigropunctatus aren't as hardy as the common gray nigropunctatus & they always have worms!

They are like kids - on any given day, one may be higher on the list but don't tell them that

I guess my "favorites" would be my chilomycterus atinga, my diodon lithurosus, my cyclichthys orbicularis and of course my arothron mealagris morph that Anthony hand carried back (risked cavity search & all!) from our trip to Italy

Best of luck to you,
Kelly

[spamin76]

Cavity search and a puffer - this image I am getting is just wrong...

I knew the black Arothrons were not as hardy.

What species is your avatar and where is it from? I have never seen a species or color morph that has black and white spots like that.