Tragedy

[Brad524]

well I'll give ya the short version :

me and my brother got into a heated argument the other day over money


and ofcourse we both had to try to p*ss the other off more
and in the end he won

he said he was moving back in with mom that day
( she lives in minnestoa )

so I went out to the garage to smoke a cig. and calm down .

once he left I went to play b-ball with some friends .

I returned home about 45 min. later and my roommate was standing by the tank saying "you need to get over here" .

foam was spilling from the skimmer like a fountain and there was a foam across the top

I instantly knew what happened

HE PUT ANTI- BAC. SOAP IN MY TANK

I instantly started removing animals to my tiny 30 gallon bow in an effort to save them .

My fish were already dead all but my clown
my new mandarin I waited so long for, DEAD and he was so fat
my little hippo tang that was a great tank mate DEAD
all my sps corals ( about 7 good sized frags ) DEAD or almost DEAD
many other corals and such things died

now I had the option of breaking his 51" HDTV he stupidly left behind for now . and believe me I was close to beating it with a baseball bat .

but I decided to be an adult .
unlike him who acted against me by poisoning my pets.

he will have to deal with that shame forever. " COWARD "

but believe me if he wasn't 200 miles away
we would of had it out

but back to the tanks, I left the poisoned tank running and after a day or so could turn the skimmer back on with out having an eruption.

and all the crustaceans and snails seemed unaffected so I left them in there too.

will this cycle itself out ?
how long do you think it will take ?
I have no idea how much he put in there .

I am going to rebuild of course and will still be setting up my 65 gl. sps/clam tank , noone can stomp out my passion


trodging on
Brad

[gaels]

omg, what a ....well, i dont wanna get in trouble for saying what i'm thinking

i have no idea if that will cycle out. just wanted to say im sorry that happened.

gael

[dfiddy]

you've gone ahead and done a water change right?

[Brad524]

yes two already

and I have been changing out water from my good tank into the bad one .

[CrystalAZ]

That was incredibly immature of him and I feel bad for the poor animals he killed.

I wouldn't beat his HDTV. But I'd sure as heck SELL it to replace my tank inhabitants.

Crystal

[Dan Thrash]

if he was my brother and he did that, i wouldnt hessitate to punch him in the face when i see him! thats not right...those fish didnt deserve that.

hell, i probably wouldnt feel better until i flew to Minnesota just to hit him!

[Brad524]

we'll have to wait and see what happens when I see him

[Don_Gnomio]

i agree with crystal... sell the TV! o and do me a favour and slap him for me...

TY

Victor

[zemuron114]

he would be getting a few right hooks from me, AFTER i sold his TV. You can get a grand easily for that!!

keep us posted on what you do to him, and of course the tank

[Johnsteph10]

Sell the TV. Replace everything he killed and keep your receipts. When he comes back for it, tell him you sold it to pay for the damages he caused.

Then hit him.

John

[DJ88©]

Sell the TV to pay for the fish and livestock he killed. Take only as much as it costs to replace the losses then give him the remainder that is left over. Document the cost of each thing replaced and provide him with a summary of total costs. Give it to him in front of another family member who will mediate. what a ..... well I can't use those words here. Grrrrrrrrrr...

but that is just how I would do it.

Sorry for your losses.

[tsquad]

Yeah, I agree with Vic and Crystal. Sell it, and tell him he owes you $$$ still, since you probably had livestock in there worth more than that TV.

[DJ88©]

OH yeah.. forgot this part.

Personally(and I hae to say this but) I would start fresh with it all.

It was an anti bacterial soap right? Who knows what lasting effects it may have. tear it down and get rid of it all except equipment that you can clean very well.

Then start fresh.

[Brad524]

well it seems I should sell the tv and hit him

more than once

any legal buffs think I can hold and sell the tv for damages

without getting fined or arrested

[jun_celis]

Brad, you did the right thing and kept your cool. I would second on selling the TV, payment for what he owes you. If he has any other stuff in your house that you can make money off, ebay or RC it!

[tsquad]

You should call him, and just go "HAHA" and hang up. Then sell it.

[redawg]

i agree with everyone else.. sell it..

[Brad524]

Originally posted by DJ88
OH yeah.. forgot this part.

Personally(and I hae to say this but) I would start fresh with it all.

It was an anti bacterial soap right? Who knows what lasting effects it may have. tear it down and get rid of it all except equipment that you can clean very well.

Then start fresh.

I do have another tank ready to go up real soon .

but would still like to be able to use this one
could Randy elaborate on this for me.

also I pulled alot of live rock and crammed it in the 30 gallon
it's kinda crowded now, and it had three fish in it and thier fine .

not everything died ( yet) but it looks like several things will be fine.

zoa's , and like corals closed right away and have not opened yet but look as though they will make it .

the major loss was the established tank , my fish and my sps corals, you have no idea how long it took to weed out sps nippers , and bully's.

thier was a small clown , a small hippo tang, a bi-color blennie, a green target mandarin
( lfs rescue , was happy and healthy till this)
and an eilib angel . they would all play together all the time .
( except the mandarin he loved to eat)

man I miss these guys

[jarhed]

As I see it, the HDTV is yours. You can see to that by suing is *behind* in small claims court!!! IF he shows up, maybe the value of the HDTV will cover what your asking. Ask for $1500 and see if he'll settle in court for the HDTV.

You are a much stronger man than I. I really hate to say this but I would have slapped the taste out of his mouth or hit him so hard his girlfriend would feel it (I'm not talking about the girlfriend at the end of his arms either).

Your a good guy, he's a sphincter for murdering innocent animals.

Nuff said. Enjoy the HDTV (or sell it and start over).

[Brad524]

Originally posted by jun_celis
Brad, you did the right thing and kept your cool. I would second on selling the TV, payment for what he owes you. If he has any other stuff in your house that you can make money off, ebay or RC it!

several things
and I just might
want to here a legal buffs opinion



and Thanks all

for your input and sympathy

Brad

[DJ88©]

It's hard to lose fish and corals you have grown attached to.

I've had a tank wipeout. It hurts.

And someone who isn't hardcore addicted to this hobby won't understand. Trust me.

Think of it this way. You have probably made some huge steps as far as learning what works and doesn't.

Imagine the new tank with all the experience.

As far as the tank. I can't see any reason not to use the tank. Give it and any equipment some serious washing with hot hot water. Make sure it is spotless. It's the live rock and such that you may run into troubles with. I am betting it is pretty much gone. But ask around about that one. WIth your tank volume and the description you gave I am betting you got a pretty good dose of soap in there.

I look at it as a new beginning. If there was anything you wanted to do but couldn't as it was up and running now is the opportunity that many of us wish we had with an up and running system.

Keep us posted.

[SMI]

He may need some serious counseling, not making a joke. That is deep-seeded anger and a real tragedy! I feel guilty if a leave a piece of LR out of my tank to long...

...I am speechless?

1. Sell the TV (those things are big $$).
2. Replace the live stock
3. Donate the remains of the proceed to the preservation of marine life in his name.

[Brad524]

Originally posted by SMI
He may need some serious counseling, not making a joke. That is deep-seeded anger and a real tragedy! I feel guilty if a leave a piece of LR out of my tank to long...

...I am speechless?

1. Sell the TV (those things are big $$).
2. Replace the live stock
3. Donate the remains of the proceed to the preservation of marine life in his name.

3. thats good

but adding a calc reactor to the new setup sounds better

[davelin315]

If you want an honest legal opinion (coming from a former prosecutor), what you have is a criminal damage to property case. However, proving that he did it is another thing. You can't rely simply on conjecture and guesses. Although the process of elimination would suggest he did it, can you prove this legally in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt which is the standard for a criminal case? Doubtful. Also, that would mean calling the cops on your brother. I doubt that you would be very popular with your family for that...

As far as a civil case for damages, you'd have to prove by a lesser standard that he did this to your tank. This might be something you could do, but again, are you willing to sue your brother? Sounds like you're in quite a battle with him right now, but the bottom line is if you sell his TV, what good will that do to your already damaged relationship? Also, at the present moment, you don't have the right to simply take his property. It's not yours, it's his. Even if you sued him and won, you couldn't simply take his property. In criminal law, it equates to theft. In civil law, it equates to conversion, which is the equivalent of theft. Unless a court rewards the TV to you, you can't touch it. You'd have to win a judgment, file the judgment, then file a lien against his property. By the time you did all of this, the TV's gone and then you're left at square one, no brother, no tank, no money...

I was not only a criminal prosecutor, but was a certified domestic violence advocate as well. I also worked in domestic relations court in private practice representing victims of domestic violence in civil matters. On top of that, I also did some limited contract and civil law. The bottom line is how far are you willing to go. If you notice my profile, I'm now a teacher. I washed my hands of the business of law as it's a dirty profession in my opinion. I have friends who are still attorney's, but I know many more attorneys that I don't have any respect for. The legal system is for real battles, so if you have hopes of being a "family" again with your brother, let it go.

I sound like a total pacifist, but think about what's important. Some corals and fish or a family member. I can't even begin to name how many fish and corals I have not been able to keep alive. I don't know how well your tank was doing, but is it worth damaging your relationship even further over a tank? Property is property, but pettiness is also pettiness. Your brother was pretty immature and inconsiderate, but will you stoop to his level?

Leave the TV, ask him to pay you for the damaged goods. You'll be much happier in the end this way. Also, you won't have your mom grabbing your ear and dragging you and him together and saying to hug and make up...

As far as how to salvage the tank, I'm not an expert, but I would think that "anti-bacterial" would kill an awful lot. If it says not to ingest it, it probably will cause problems with your livestocks' internal systems. We all have bacteria in our stomachs, and so do your inverts that have stomachs.

As far as the effects of "soap" or glycerine products on water, it breaks down the surface tension of the water and comes in between the molecules of water. This reduction in the cohesive properties of water will no doubt have a bad effect on your tank inhabitants. Basically, how soap works is it combines water in a solution and reduces the cohesive properties of the water. This allows it to reduce the adhesive properties of other materials. The end result of soap is that it helps to water to come between your skin and other materials and loosen the adhesiveness of that material so that when you rinse your hands, it is washed away. I would think in living organisms, this would cause significant damage. For inverts and gilled animals, I would think this would really cause problems. (This is all 6th grade science in Virginia). Of course, I could be misapplying the information, but that's my opinion. I would take out the livestock and replace the rock and sand. I would also check to see what other chemicals are in the soap. Dyes and oils are sometimes present as well as moisturizers which might be detrimental in the long term.

Good luck with all of your decisions! By the way, this is not legal advice, this is friendly advice. I can't give you legal advice unless you're a client so this is NOT to be considered advice about what to do legally. Also, I don't know what the laws are in Wisconsin. I practiced in Illinois before, but laws are different from state to state (see, I even have to make a disclaimer about giving you advice!).

[salty joe]

I agree with DJ 88. Sell the TV and give him the remainder of the money. IMHO, If you can't get enough money to cover the cost of the livestock, your best bet might be just to forget the whole thing. As much fun as it might be to think about scrambling his face, for your own sake forget the violence except for honest self-defense.
Don't provoke him and keep your distance, which is real hard with a brother, but in my case it was the only reasonable option.

In the past, I had some serious problems with a brother. Things can get real ugly real fast. A destroyed reef tank can suddenly seem insignificant.

I feel for you, I really do because I've been there.

Joe