Resume length

[fishfood2581]

It seems what i thought all along that all the junk everyone always tells you to put in the resume, all the extras the cover letters etc are really a waste of time, yours and the HR person reading it.

I always thought to myself if i was reading resumes all day i wouldnt wanna see cover letters, and objectives etc etc. ITs just a load of bull from someon trying to sell themselves and makes their job longer and more tedius.

Are there more HR people, Headhunters that agree with me on this? other then the 2 or 3 that seem to confirm it already in this thread

[Muttling]

One thing to remember about resumes is that they're like a news paper article. Most readers don't get past the first page unless they're interested in you. gotta put your best foot forward FIRST.

I'm a civil/environment engineer with 13 years hazardous/radioative/unexploded ordnance clean up experience. Then another 5 years of heavy construction experience.

You can't fit my resume onto 2 pages, I've tried. Just the licenses and specialty certifications which are critical to my qualifications for the job take over one page. Then add education blurbs and you're closing in on 2 pages without a single discussion of the real meat n potatos...work experience.

Mine is laid out experience then education, then licenses, and finally certifications. If they like the work experience, they'll want to know what my degrees are. If they like all that, they'll want to know I hold the right specialty stuff to work on their projects.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by fishfood2581
It seems what i thought all along that all the junk everyone always tells you to put in the resume, all the extras the cover letters etc are really a waste of time, yours and the HR person reading it.

Probably true, but I know that some companies require it with your application (my wife ran into this last year when she was looking for a job).
Then you have to decide whether or not to include it with the application for companies that don't require one.

I personally lean towards including the stuff. If they don't want to read it, they don't have to. But if they want to read about something, and it's not there, that's going to hurt you a lot more.

Dave

[sfshea]

Take the perspective of the reader. I've practiced law for 19 years, and have read thousands of resumes. Obviously, certain fields will call for more explanation of expertise. I need to see something in the first one-half page which catches my attention. Multiple pages, at least in my field, are unnecessary.

Going through resumes to hire people takes me away from my work. So brevity is key. Concise is good. Verbosity does not sell well. It reminds me of a take home exam I had in college. The prof said your response was limited to two pages, double space. If you went over, he wouldn't read it. Some thought he was just giving guidelines. He wasn't.

[Muttling]

I think there's a point that is WIDELY missed concerning the resume....





A resume NEVER wins you the job. The only purpose of the resume is to get you an interview. That's where the job is normally won or lost. Just load the resume with enough details to qualifiy you for the positioin and to wet their appetite (e.g. make yourself look like a good candidate.)

The interview and subsequent calls to your references really make or break the opportunity.


That said, the vast majority of jobs are obtained through networking. You have a strong leg up when one of your references is a current employee of the company. In 4 of the 5 professional jobs I've held, my references have included a corporate vice president. I've interviewed with a number of firms, but never gotten much of a consideration unless I was wired from the inside.

Tell everyone you know what companies you're applying to. All it takes is a friend who's friends with the daughter of the CEO. (You might laugh, but it got me a job offer 2 months ago....I turned the offer down, but it still got me there.) If there's nothing to pull your resume out of the pile, then you're just another slob who actually met all the screening criteria for minimum qualifications.

[pnosko]

Hey all, this thread has been short but very high on quality comments. Thanks, all, for your feedback. I mean that sincerely. I hope it hasn't been too good a post for the lounge as that puts it at risk for deletion.


BTW, the last job I got was the one I wanted more than any other I've ever had, as it put me on the road to self-employment. My resume at that time was 5 pages (just overflowed to page 5). What I added for the past 4.5 years a few days ago just about filled the fifth page. But I'm going to find a way to shorten it to 2 pages anyway.

[Jamesurq]

Field: Accounting - Wholesale consumer goods

Nuber of years experience: 12

Resume - 2 pages.

Helpful?


I just read through about 200 resumes on Friday. I'm hiring for an analyst position and I get everything from some guy who's gone to college at Hamburger University (as in - the one the McDonalds does) to a guy who's last job was VP of a mortgage company.

I can tell you this: I had to find ways to eliminate people right away... First thing - ANY spelling or gramatical is GONE.
If it's obvious that when they cut and pasted the job title into the coversheet - they didn't take the time to recheck to see if it made sense.

Like this one: "I believe my extensive experience in marketing for a video store will prove to be an asset in the position of Returns Analyst ."

Then it's a question of long winded - vs concise. Bottom line is if I have 150 to look at after the first go through - I'm getting tired of reading the same "plays well with others" type fluff that inevitably finds it's way into the resume of an insecure hire.

After that I basically base my choice on the one that shows up for the interview on time - isn't freaky - knows a few answers to questions - and is smokin hot.

[km133688]

being one of those who is currently doing interviews for IM positions, let me share my opions.

If you want to get a job, you have two choices with a resume:

1) blanket everything using a generic resume and hope for the best (if I get any of these, I toss these pretty damn quick). This works best for things like posting on Monster.com of some other such resume humping web site.

2) target each resume you send out for a specific job offer. This works. It means however that you have to do a little work yourself in finding out about the job posting and what it requires (I figure if someone can't spend the time to learn what I want for a specific job, they don't deserve it anyway).

I have never thrown out a resume because it was too long. I do get tired somewhere between page one and page five though.

However, I am always looking for a top five list of specific skills/positives. With that in mind, do whatever you must to find out what these top five "specials" are for a particular job. Then emphasize your experience in these areas on a resume designed for that job. This means of course that if you apply for 10 jobs then you will have three or four different resumes.

Remember though that the resume doesn't get you a job, it gets you an interview. It is in the interview that a decision is made. Understanding this, ask yourself, why would somebody interview me if my resume doesn't contain the specifics of what they want? They won't naturally which is why you need to get details about the job before you send the resume. This is the key.

GET DETAILS ABOUT A SPECIFIC JOB BEFORE YOU SEND YOUR RESUME. THEN RE-WRITE YOUR RESUME FOR THIS JOBS SPECIFIC NEEDS.

Do this and you will get plenty of interviews.

Also remember, that if you don't know something, don't fake it. Experts in the area of interest will be interviewing you and you won't be able to snow them.

Good luck.

[pnosko]

Originally posted by km133688
Remember though that the resume doesn't get you a job, it gets you an interview.

This has been repeated several times now. I assumed this was a given. Is there anyone that didn't know this?

[dendronepthya]

He was only trying to help.

[ReeferMac]

Pete wonder's sometime's why folks like him so much.

- Mac

[Jamesurq]

wonder's?
sometime's?

[abfleck]

2 pages max...you can always give more info as needed!

AJ

[Hawkdl2]

As a SrVP at a biomedical research institute and CEO of two start-up companies, I am almost constantly recruiting staff for positions requiring everything from a recent college degree to lawyers and established Ph.D.s, for positions from entry level technicians to directors. I have an HR department, two job placement services and two true head hunter firms that screen (or try to anyway) resumes and CVs for me.

I do not care how long someone's resume or CV is. I ONLY care about it’s content. However, I can't recall ever seeing a non-PhD. candidate (lawyers included) that warranted more than two pages. CVs are typically 4-10 pages (FYI, mine is 8 pages) for a scientist well out of his/her post-doctoral years. The additional pages are for, as previously mentioned, patents, papers, books, chapters, major presentations, etc.

I read resumes/CVs for one reason only - to determine if the candidate has ENOUGH experience and RELEVANT experience to warrant further consideration. I do not care about trivial job accomplishments that I presume ANY reasonable candidate would have. In fact, if I see trivial "accomplishments" listed, I presume the candidate perceives himself as being poorly trained and trying to snow me with fluff – and it often goes in the trash. I believe no competent employer would be impressed by reading that a candidate "helped organize the department picnic", "is familiar with Windows 95, 98 AND XP", etc. List pertinent and significant accomplishments or skills only. Also, I do not really care about how many church groups you belong to, or that you volunteer and the local dog pound. I do care what professional affiliations you have or relevant certifications and special training you’ve had (I like candidates that demonstrate and interest in continuing to increase their skills through classes as such).

As an important note, poor grammar or spelling will guarantee a resume a spot my trash can. Personally, I like the "what I will do for the company" type of intro paragraph - as long as it's short. I glean a lot about the candidate’s personality and their ability to communicate, which I consider on of the most important skills. I have no tolerance for people who can’t use proper English, or if English isn’t their first language, can’t bother to ask a friend to proof-read their resume.

[km133688]

Don't worry fellas, Pete didn't hurt my feelings any. He is correct of course, it has been repeated many times.

Pete, I presented this info (my opinions ofcourse), even though some of it may be repeatative for those of us in the market for a while, because although you are the one who started this thread, you are not the only one reading it. There are many people new to the market, who have not heard all this obvious stuff.

There was no implication intended by me that you were somehow nieve or unschooled when it came to doing interviews.

Thanks, Kevin Meade

[texasreefer]

Mine is 2 pages long w/ over 20 years contract experience in engineering. I change mine based on the job I'm applying for. I have a short description listing different job experiences I have and then only list the particular jobs pertaining to the job I'm applying for. For example if I'm applying for a job dealing w/ LPG I list all my experiences w/ LPG and might leave off my power plant experience. I've had too many different jobs to list them all as well as different types of jobs from power plants to chemical plants to pipeline work. I just put a the bottom references available on request and if they are interested in you then you can send them in as well as list particular job experiences.

[pnosko]

Hey Kevin, thanks for understanding. I wasn't criticising your comment. I was really wondiering of people though a resume alone would get you the job. Maybe in a few rare, high-profile cases, but not in general.

[clavery]

km133688, good advice. A resume should always be targeted to the job one is applying for. It shows you've understood the job and have done some research on the position and the company, rather than just send in a generic resume.

Pete, you'd be surprised what people think/expect. I've gotten resumes with horrible spelling, the company name spelled wrong, MY name spelled wrong on cover letters AND thank-you notes, and then they can't understand why they didn't get an interview or get the job.

I had one applicant sneak into our kitchen, eat our chinese food, then proceed to suck the chinese food out of her braces during the entire interview. AND she was interviewing for a job working for me. Needless to say, she was not asked back and the recruiter got quite the tongue lashing!!!

I have so many bad interview stories, I could jam up the server for days!!!!!

Cheryl

[Muttling]

I reviewed a resume from a project manager I had worked with at a previous company. She had this one OH WOW project listed where the company had saved the day on a benzene plume headed for a drinking water well field.

Funny thing about that project, it was one of mine and I don't recall her billing a single hour to the project. (Much less being the "lead design engineer directing all aspects of.....")

Another good one, a friend of mine has a South Carolina specialty license for underground storage tank remediation. His company submitted a big proposal to the Department of Energy and one of the questions they got back was "Why is the number on Ms. ********'s UST certificate the same as the number on Mr. *******'s."

Their office manager thought it would look better to have 2 certified UST people on the bid so she got a copy of my friend's certificate and whited his name out then typed in her name thinking DOE wouldn't verify the licenses.