Queen Angel Question

[CJ31]

I am considering a small juvenile Queen Angel for my 220. Is there anything to look for to get the best coloration? ie..Do better specimens come from certain areas of the world (there are some locally that are from florida & brazil)? What juvenile markings do I need to look for to be sure it is a Queen and not Townsend's, or Blue? Anyway to tell which will have the best adult coloration?

Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

[yoink326]

I think all Queens come from an certain region in the Atlantic; Florida, Mexico, Caribbeans. So I don't think there's much difference in them, but I could be wrong. The way to tell the juvies apart from blues is that the queens have curved white bars on their body, while the blues are straight. I can't find any pictures right now, but try searching for them on google or something, and you'll be able to tell the difference.

[Tyr-Sog]

Hi CJ31,

From what I have gathered it is pretty tough to distinguish the juvenials apart. What I did was looked for a juvie with more orange in her fins. Also their stripes tend to be slightly different. A Blues strips are whitish blue and mostly run in a straight line with the body where the Queens stripes tend to be a deep blue and run in a slight curve. It might be the hybrid, Townsendi thats the tougher one to distinguish from the Queen. From what I have gathered is though that the Townsendi has rounder back fins while the Queens have Fins that go to a point. I guess it's really a gamble at such a young age and even the author of my Angel Fish book says it takes a trained eye to see the difference.. TBH at this point I guess I'm not ruling out mine could be any of the three but it's leaning towards a Queen. Until that dark blue spot on the head shows I won't be a 100% positive.

Goodluck.

[M.Dandaneau]

Local populations DO have different markings, with one local population illustrated in "Reef Fishes", vol. 1 by Scott W. Michael even looking very much like a Koi (St. Paul's Rock, Central Atlantic, page 239).

Knowing this usually provides almost no help at all as it's highly unlikely that a purchased specimen can be pinpointed to all but the most general area unless you catch the fish yourself, of know the person who actually caught it.............asking for a fish from a particular area is hazardous as you're quite likely to be TOLD that a specimen is from that area, no matter what its true origin.
At best, a reputable dealer will tell you he doesn't know other than an general area.

The points on the dorsal/anal fins are dependant on the age of the fish, not the species, except for any normal variation found from specimen to specimen.

Colors vary highly between individual animals of both species, and hybrids often show a characteristic known as "hybrid vigor" in that they will be larger and more colorful than one or EITHER adult species, with dominant adult coloration varying between yellow, orange and gold (color is also partially dependant upon diet, as well).........depending on the size fish you purchase, blue or blue/gold spotting on the forehead is an indicator of either a Queen or a Townsend's, as this will develop into the "crown" from which the Queen gets its name, not found in Blue Angels.

These grow fairly slowly, and, it's been my experience that juveniles will do MUCH better in tanks that have been established a year or better and which contain LR that's been allowed to grow almost anything that will develop.

Any help at all?

Mike

[Tyr-Sog]

Beautiful Queen Mike!

Yours? Anymore pictures if so?

Thanks for the info by the way. I noticed the slow growth rate. Kind of a bummer, I love the adult colors. lol I guess no matter what we end up with the these fish are going to be beautiful anyways.

[M.Dandaneau]

That one was ours.....we lost it to a malfunctioning UV sterilizer that allowed electric current into the tank (along with a LOT of tankmates!).

We lost the previous Queen after 1 1/2 years to choking on a piece of raw squid that was too large for her to swallow.

They can be challenging (and disappointing) but well worth the effort.



Mike

[Tyr-Sog]

I hear you mike.

I had my first challenge with my Queen. She's very active and outgoing, not shy at all. Well one day I noticed that she was hiding under a flat peice of LR, just hoovering in the same spot. I was concerned but not overally concerned because her coloration was fine and I seen no signs of parasites or physical trama. Well it leads in to day two and day three. Day three I was getting worried, she was moving around a bit but she just didn't look natural. There were times I thought she died when I couldn't find her for a hour or so. Anyways, all though still healthy looking she was beginning to breath heavy and looked bloated. Water pars were fine but I still did a 20% water change. No improvement. Well I myself was on the toilet reading my angelfish book(Marine AngelFishes by Joachim Frische) when I came across a read about constipation. Sure enough it was the exact symptoms and the only cure is a freshwater dip. So I take my tank apart, get her out, dip her, some poop falls out and withen a hour she's back to normal. lol

What a nightmare.

Here's a picture of her.

[lilswanwillow]

those are beuts!!! now, i know what else is going in the 300 gallon tank I'm planing...
a queen angel.
hoot

[CJ31]

Thanks for the responses. I did a little more research last night and found URL=http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/holacanthus/ciliaris.htm

It has some good info that was helpful (for anyone else tagging along on this thread). It sounds like it is tough for the untrained eye to tell the Townsend's from the Queen's. But is there any reliable way to do this? Are the Queen's bars still more curved than the Townsend's? Is the spot on the head less noticeable? Mike - I know you said size is one way, but how can you know if it is larger if it is the only specimen and you don't know it's age?

Also, about how long would it take for a 3" Juvi to change coloration. I know it depends on the fish, environment, etc, but I am just looking for guesstimates/experiences. Thanks again

PS - Tyr-sog & Mike...both beautiful fish!

[M.Dandaneau]

Since the "Townsend's Angel" is really a hybrid, there are no exact answers......some look EXACTLY like Queens, some like blues and with any combination imaginable in the middle, depending upon each individual fish.

My only advice here is, "if it LOOKS like a Queen and ACTS like a Queen, then it's a Queen, whether it's a Townsend's or not! "

As the immortal bard said, a rose by any other name.......

For my money, it's actually a moot point, with the only difference being a Blue costs less than a Queen..............I've seen spectacular Blues that surpass average Queens and vice-versa.

The first Queen I bought ended up being a Blue that was a spectacular golden morph at 5", and the Blue ended up being the Townsend's in the pic and predominantly bright yellow at the time of its demise.

Mike

[CJ31]

My only advice here is, "if it LOOKS like a Queen and ACTS like a Queen, then it's a Queen, whether it's a Townsend's or not! "

I hear ya. I guess I will just make a best guess, and love the fish either way.

It is amazing though, I was at a LFS (that I usually don't go to) and they tried to sell me a Queen that I know was clearly a Blue. The stripes were very straight.