Perfect Plumbing Plans?

[Sir Knight]

kev-dog1,
There is no fool proof system. But to get this thread back on track I will tell you how I have plumbed my systems for the last 10 years.

1) I always try to get a reef ready tank with built in overflows.

2) For the overflows stand pipe - I use a durso stand pipe
without the top cap. This way if something plugs up the
elbow (1/1/2" to 2") the water will go to the top of the stand
pipe and drain.

3) for the return(s) from the sump - I drill a hold in the bottom of
the 90o where the return comes from the overflow so, if the
power goes out the hole(s) will break the siphon.

4) The sump must be large enough to hold the water that drains
from the tank if the power goes out. For a 75 gallon tank
a 20 to 30 gallon sump should work fine. My sump is 90
gallons over 6' long. I keep my skimmer and my calcium
reactor in it. I have had them leak on me in the past so in they
go. I also use a 5 gallon bucket that is in the sump for
skimmer output because of another accident

5) If you want to add one more safety item you can add a float
switch to your tank. If the water in the tank goes to almost
overflow level it will shut off the return pump or pumps. I had
this on a tank that had a hang on the back overflow. But it
could be used if the stand pipes get clogged

6) The big advantage to closed loops is you don't have any
power heads in the tank which can burn out and possibly kill
the tank. Plus the fact that power heads add a lot of heat to
the tank.

7) I am running a closed loop that has 4 - 3/4" outlets and a
1 1/2" feed . This setup is pushing about 4000 gallons an hour.
Keep in mind I have a 300 gallon tank. I'm also using 2 - 1000
GPH pumps for returns for a total of 6000 GPH of water turn
over. My rule is for SPS's 20 to 30 times per hour. This works for
me.

8) For your return pump if you use an external pump plumbed
with a bulkhead add a 45 elbow to the bulkhead inside the
sump and point the elbow down to the input water so you are
taking water from the bottom of the sump. This will help in
stopping some of the micro bubbles.

9) For carpeted floors I all ways use 3/4" marine grade plywood
under the stand. The reason is if you do get a leak the stain
from the stand will not bleed on to the carpet. Been there
done that. It is a lot easier to tell the wife that I wet the carpet
then telling her I damaged the carpet (stained the carpet with
stain). Even salt water will dry but the stain doesn't come off. I
know this for a fact. When I sold that house I had to have the
carpet dyed. The carpet was only two years old.

Hope this gives you some things to think about and maybe help you a little.

[reewik]

I would love some help on a closed system for circulation. I understand the concept but have a few questions?

1. Have you plummed this as a hang on or does this originate in the sump? Any pics?

[wooglin]

Originally posted by cwa46
Just keep on wooglin on!

I dont get it?


What are you doing with all your old livestock and equipment?Anything you are selling might be usefull to locals since used local equipment, and livestock are hard to come by.

[rcmike]

Originally posted by cwa46
I am worse in person as I can't abide fools! You especially won't like me. As you already know, I am putting my home up for sale this fall and moving out of state. All that will remain of my system will be a couple of 20 gal. broodstock tanks, and a sump by next week. I have already shut down my growout tanks, 135 gal and now I am shutting down a 90 gal. So I see no benefit now. A club would have been real helpful 4-6 years ago.

Sounds like someone is bitter that a club wasn't started earlier so he could be included. I would have loved to have had a club several years ago also. It would have saved me much money and many headaches. BTW, who are you calling fools?

[cwa46]

Originally posted by rcmike
Sounds like someone is bitter that a club wasn't started earlier so he could be included. I would have loved to have had a club several years ago also. It would have saved me much money and many headaches. BTW, who are you calling fools?

Why would I have to be "bitter" because I had hoped for a reef club in the area? It didn't happen, but I can live with that. But joining now with my system going down and 6-7 months left here makes no sense. Who called anyone a fool?

[rcmike]

Sorry, misread that. I was thinking you were calling the whole reef club fools. It appears you were just talking about Wooglin. (I'll let him worry about that).

On the topic of plumbing. I would definately get a reef ready or drill the tank for an overflow. I have had several incidents with air getting in HOB overflow tubes or algae growing in them and slowing down the flow resulting in an overflow.

[MadTownMax]

Joe Wall,

Thanks for the on-target input, do you have any suggestions on how to reduce bubbles when moving 2400 gph through a 22 gallon sump (sorry kev-dog don't want to hi-jack your thread)? I'm thinking that if I add another sponge it may help the situation, baffles are useless as the 100 X water flow doesn't allow any spots for the bubbles to float up.


unfortunately others can't seem to get over their Egos long enough to try to stay on track.

Could you guys drop it, or just start your own OT thread so that Kev-Dog can get some answers to his questions?

[wooglin]

I agree. After I posted not to let it happen, bamm it happens to me. Sorry....

On the topic of high-flow, browse thru the previous issues of Reefkeeper mag, I think you will find some examples of tanks of the month that use a mixed system with both a sump and a closed loop for flow. Not sure how that works, but I am sure someone has some expertise in this area.

[wooglin]

MadTown max I built a box that I filled with live rock rubble that my water flows into. At the bottom of the box are slots that the water exits thru. So the water has to go thru the live rock rubble bubbles and all before it can get to the sump. The box is located in the sump, and is actually a plastic 2.5 gallon water container like you use in the fridge. Dont think that size would be big enough for 2000GPH but it works in my 20 gallon sump for 1000GPH

[kev-dog1]

Thanks for everyone's input!
I will definitely go with a Reef Ready tank. I've heard too many negatives about hang-on overflows...and since this is a starting over project, why not do it right...hence the reason I am seeking input way in advance so I can wrap my head around what my needs are.
And the closed loop system sounds ideas too for creating lots of flow. I really love to see my polyps and xenia and such swaying in the current. I'm considering a SQWD.

Thanks Joe Wall for the best answers yet. AND for pulling us back into focus.
MadTownMax - no worries about hijacking...all the input and your questions just helps me learn more and think about other things to consider.

Still looking for a diagram that incorporates all these tips. I guess I just understand/learn things better from a picture than reading it as narrative.

Thanks to all for keeping this thread going. I really, really appreciate this resource.

[Sir Knight]

Have you plummed this as a hang on or does this originate in the sump? Any pics?

Yes. closed loops are exactly that. The input water comes directly from the tank, not the sump. I use a over the lip of the tank with elbows to make a "U" with a strainer on the end. I don't drill holes in tanks even though I have an acrylic tank. Just in case I want to sell the tank I don't want holes for the next person to have to deal with. I will try to take a couple of pictures of my closed loop to give you some ideas.

Thanks for the on-target input, do you have any suggestions on how to reduce bubbles when moving 2400 gph through a 22 gallon sump (sorry kev-dog don't want to hi-jack your thread)? I'm thinking that if I add another sponge it may help the situation, baffles are useless as the 100 X water flow doesn't allow any spots for the bubbles to float up.

I have used sponges and it does work, but after a while the sponges get clogged up and are more of a problem reducing intake water to the pump. you will have to replace them and will be cleaning them all the time. Don't put a sponge on the intake to the pump as this reduces the intake water to the pump and can/will cause damage to the pump. I have also used live rock in the sump to reduce micro bubble. This works very will if the sump was an old wet/dry. Place the rock in the wet/dry compartment. Have the over flow water hit the rock first. This will also reduce micro bubbles. Lastly, make sure that all of your intakes to your return pump(s) are air tight. You can also be sucking air thru them causing micro bubbles. Remember sumps are for equipment, refug are for algae,etc, they should be separate items to work correctly in my opinion.

2400 GPH going into a 22 gallon sump tank is way to much. The purpose of the sump in most cases is for equipment. So, for example if your skimmer is in your sump and skimmer only has a 900 GPH pump you only need to have about 1000 GPH of water going into your sump. Remember the overflow will only send as much water to the sump as you return. So even if the overflow can handle 2200 GPH you can use a 1000 GPH pump. To get water movement in a tank the closed loop is the way to go.

[MadTownMax]

Fist, thanks for all the help guys, My system was working perfectly for a year, but I decided to do some upgrades (getting larger equipment before I get a larger tank).

I know that this may seem a little confusing, but I'm doing my system this way because I found an ampmaster 3000 for $100, so a closed loop isn't really the solution that I'm looking for.

I already have the drains emptying into a 3" pipe that goes into a Y, with the odd-end sticking up, trying to get the bubbles into the top of the water, which helps a bit. I'll try putting some liverock rubble into that Y section first, with the odd-end pointing down with rubble in it held in with egg crate.

If that doesn't do the trick I'm going to install another baffle in the sump along with some live rock rubble on eggcrate in this new baffle to try to control the bubbles.