Tank with out a Sump!

moormist · #1 09/02/2001, 06:20 AM

Hello Guy's.

How many of you are running an Aguarium,
With out a Sump! and if so how are you doing it please.
I would like to do it this way ,I have a tank that is 48x20x24w.
I dont want a sump,i dont want to get my tank drilled,and i dont want a overflow hang on the side.i will have a lot of live rock and live side,so the Ext/Can will be for Floss/Carbon/and water flow around the tank . what do you think, will this work ?..a.j.

dattack · #2 09/02/2001, 06:34 AM

I tried my 30 gallon tank without a sump and it kinda got ugly with the hanging skimmer which basically was a sore eye. With a lot of live rocks and live sand all you basically need is some powerheads for circulation and a good skimmer. You shouldn't need a filter unless you have lots of fishes in there.

I gave up on a sumpless tank and got a 20 gallon sump for my 30 gallon and everything is much cleaner and less clutter on the tank. I can also hide that ugly skimmer too.

fishwife,too · #3 09/02/2001, 09:00 AM

The only problem I can see is that you will need a way to clean the surface of the water. This is a real problem with tanks that don't have overflows. I had planned sumpless/skimmerless for my 200 but the surface gunk is so unsightly that we have now decided to add an undertank refugium (aka sump).

We have a 29 and a 37 that run sumpless with just small skimmers and they get a little surface scum but PHs aimed at the surface really break it up and it's not much of a problem. With the 200 the surface area is so large that even powerful pumps can't quite keep it broken up sufficiently. Plus without a skimmer, all that gunk needs someplace to go. A refugium seems the best option.

Anyway, just keep the surface buildup in mind and have a plan for breaking it up/removing it.

Laurie

Steve C.S. · #4 09/02/2001, 09:22 AM

I went sumpless on my 65gal. for about four months. I had an algae bloom and added some extra equipment to clear it up. I added the sump so everything wouldn't be hanging in view. I have heard it is best to give a tank a year of so befor going sumpless, that way the tank and its bio-system will be well established. Good luck and let us know how it goes

moormist · #5 09/02/2001, 11:00 AM

Thank you Guy's for the info, I will keep you up to date as it get's going better,a.j.

Wolverine · #6 09/02/2001, 11:37 AM

Our 46g and 10g tanks are both sumpless. The 46g tank has a preskimmer on the Bakpak, and so that takes care of the surface gunk. The 10g I've found can avoid the build-up as long as I'm good about keeping the venturi intakes clean and doing water changes. Both are going fine. I don't know that there's any trick to what we're doing, or that we'll do anything really different when we do have a sump.

While this has worked fine for us, I do think that when we set our next tank up (after we move from this place), we'll use a sump.

Dave

bigtank · #7 09/02/2001, 05:31 PM

My 70g reef is sumpless. If you have one or more powerheads aimed at the surface, the scum is much less troublesome. You can't get a really good skimmer though, without a sump. The plus is that the chance of a leak is about one in a million.

However, a calcium reactor is not an option this way, so I will have to get a sump eventually.

moormist · #8 09/02/2001, 05:38 PM

Thank you Bigtank for the info mate, Alan Eng.

ByTor · #9 09/02/2001, 05:40 PM

Here's my 55gal softy tank. No sump,No skimmer..3 year old plenum setup.. all the tank gets if food for the fish and corals and FW topoffs...It might see 2 or 3 WC's a year and some fresh GAC everyother month

Hey if it works why mess with it

http://reefaholics.com/ByTor/

zt allstar · #10 09/02/2001, 07:39 PM

Looks great Bytor! What kind of light do you have on there? How many fish?

ByTor · #11 09/02/2001, 07:51 PM

Thanx

4x40w no's 2 are sylvania ultradaylights and 2 are uri's super actinics..I got a bunch of the uri's free the were used..Good enough for softies...As for fish A soon to be evicted hippo tang,pair of bangaiis and a marine betta...

zt allstar · #12 09/02/2001, 07:57 PM

That's more my style, simple but effective.

ByTor · #13 09/02/2001, 08:02 PM

Yup!!! We are more than pleased with the rig... to bad i'll be breaking it down soon and making it one of the sumps for the 240gal this tank however will prolly end up being the refuge tank...

zt allstar · #14 09/02/2001, 08:07 PM

Are all the softies going in the big 240?

ByTor · #15 09/02/2001, 08:22 PM

nope into a 110 acrylic reverse bow front Tenecor rig that had a price that was too good to pass on

the 240 will be total SPS ..plans are to try and make a reef crest tank with out flooding the house

Big surge tubs with timed returns from behind the rock work that will be at one end of the tank...

parkerman · #16 09/02/2001, 08:27 PM

I've been running my 46 gallon for almost 2 years now with an eheim wet/dry canister filter. As you mentioned I emptied it out completely, so it's just for extra water volume and a source of flow. The nice thing about the wet/dry is that it fills and then empties, so it's almost like a current or wave maker.

Now I am considering a sump, because I am sick of the look and performance of my hang-on skimmer. If your happy with a hang on skimmer than I think it will work fine.

zt allstar · #17 09/02/2001, 08:32 PM

Man, that sounds pretty sweet. I've read (different books) about setting up tanks with the big surges but never really gave it much thought. Are you going with a DSB? I'm not real familiar with the bowfronts. Basically will the SPS corals be centered in the middle of the tank and the water will crash down on them?

ByTor · #18 09/02/2001, 08:36 PM

no zt all the rockwork and corals will be at the other end of the tank from the surge tubs...

zt allstar · #19 09/02/2001, 08:47 PM

Oh, I get it, the water will pour into the tank and kind of make a swell or a wave hitting the reef and your corals. COOL.

pjr · #20 09/02/2001, 09:02 PM

Quote:

How many of you are running an Aguarium,
With out a Sump! and if so how are you doing it please.

I am with you on this. I had a 75g reef setup about 6 years ago with a corner prefilter/surface skimmer with bottom-drilled hole, which led to a 20g sump, and returned via a little giant through PVC into three returns drilled into the bottom of the tank. Worked fine for a year, until a short power outage and a failed check valve combined to create a reverse flow, leaving a cracked sump filled to the top, only1 inch of water in the 75g tank, and about 60g on the floor. The good news was that I had sold many of the animals in prep for a move. Still a disaster though.

I've decided to make this hobby as risk-free and trouble-free as possible. So, no more sumps with all the PVC to leak, valves to fail, drilled glass to weaken and crack, no water flow to be broken for strange reasons, and so on! When I travel, I can leave in peace.

I have set up several tanks since then, all without a sump. Tips:

1. The larger AquaClear filters (300 and higher) have large areas for carbon, filters, phosphate sponges -- just about anything that you want to add! High water flow, trouble free, pretty quiet. Cheap too!

2. I have used several different canisters in these systems (Fluval 203, 303, Magnum 350, HOT). I prefer the AquaClear. MUCH easier to maintain. Canisters add a level of complexity to pull out, open, disassemble, clean, reassemble, reinstall. AquaClear: pull the sponge and carbon, rinse and reload, put it back in. Elapsed time: 2 minutes max!

In addition, that plastic cannister hose has always adds a level of leak risk. Once during a cleaning, I didn't tightly clamp the hose of a magnum. Lucky I came back into the room a little later -- only lost about 2g of water! Performace-wise, I didn't find the cannister an improvement over the AquaClear 300 to be frank.

3. Surface skimming is easy to accomplish. A while back I used the original BakPak hang-on with the add-on surface skimmer (just a box that fits around the pump, which forces it to draw water from the surface). Worked well, but the original BakPak put too many bubbles into the tank. I sold the skimmer and used a cheapie for a while. Surface film problems were minimal due to good water flow.

I now use the Remore C which does a decent job (although I wish I purchased the slightly bigger pro model). I added the old BakPak surface skimmer to the Rio pump -- voila! Good surface skimming once again!

4. With your larger tank, you may need a few extra powerheads. For the filter, you'll want to use the AquaClear 500 for your tank. And Precision Marine makes a hang-on skimmer that everyone here raves about. Supposed to be much better than the Remora at a similar cost.

5. As far as plumbing visuals, you can just barely see the skimmer and filter. They are neatly tucked behind the tank. The surface skimmer box does take up some space in the tank, but not much more than a corner prefilter.

Good luck! Let me know how you proceed!

ByTor · #21 09/02/2001, 09:14 PM

well done!!! PJR..Sorry got a little off track... Zt you can always drop me an email....moormist, just keep it simple...Low bioload, with good water flow and nutrient export one way or another..Done either thru skimming, macro algae export or water changes..you'll do fine... keep us posted...

wasabi · #22 09/02/2001, 09:36 PM

as far as surface skimming and a skimmer i have a precision marine hot1 skimmer. i made my surface skimmer out of a large hang on collection container, that i cut drain grooves with a circular saw. it works fantastic and pulls the surface scum down to be skimmed.

moormist · #23 09/03/2001, 01:06 PM

Well Done Guy's.
I think that the info that i have got from you is just great on this
B.Board. you have all been very helpful to me.
"This is What i am thinking Of useing".
48x22x22. 100# live rock and about 2in if Sand,3 or more P/H's
2 New type 303 Fluval E/C. Skimmer, just to start i want to go for
Invertes and Fish. Ok!
"Thank you - PJR and ByTor. and all the rest of you Guy's...
Alan England.