bypassing the sump and running one overflow into the return pump....how ?

golfish · #1 04/13/2001, 08:00 PM

I'm moving too much water through my sump. I think it will help my tiny bubble problem if I can figure out a way (with your help)to plumb one of the overflows into the return pump.
Would it work if I put a Tee in the line that runs from the sump to the return pump (Amp Master 3000)and run a line from one of the overflows to the Tee...

Any suggestions?

Mark

Desert Fish · #2 04/13/2001, 08:22 PM

The only way I can think of which might be easy tro adjust without continual watching would be to drill a second bulkhead before the first baffle and t the intakes going to the pump. Install valves on both lines and balance to remove the bubbles. At least this way there can be no catastrophic resultant floods or too little flow through the sump

DedHed · #3 04/13/2001, 08:25 PM

i could be wrong, but that doesn't sound too kosher

the water from the overflow isn't a very steady supply of water for the input of the pump. plus there would be a silly amount of bubbles coming from the overflow.

wait for the experts to chome in, but i'm almst certain that cannot work

hope that helps

Dennis

golfish · #4 04/13/2001, 08:35 PM

Dennis,
I know what you mean about a steady supply of water, that's why I suggested the Tee being in the line from the sump to the return pump. I use two Stockman\Durso stand pipe on my 1.5" bulkeads, the water flows into the overflow and right into the pipe. The water level in my overflows is only about an inch lower that the water level in the tank so there's not much bubble making going on there..Lots of bubble making going on in the 40 gal sump with 2000 GPH crashing down ......You guys might be right, this might not be the best way to do it....

Mark

SEABUZZ · #5 04/13/2001, 08:56 PM

golfish, if you have room, try this. its cheap. dont glue anything. the bottom left side is capped. and notice the holes in the bottom of the right side. see how many bubbles i have in the sump.

Bamm Bamm · #6 04/13/2001, 08:59 PM

Hey seabuzz that a good idea..I might incorporate something liek that..Only smaller into my sump..sweet idea..Dan

golfish · #7 04/13/2001, 09:15 PM

Seabuzz,
What is that 3" fittings? Hmmmmmm ooks like its worth a try.....I'm sure I'll have room, I'll have to wait until Monday to get 3" fittings

SEABUZZ · #8 04/13/2001, 09:31 PM

2 inch

golfish · #9 04/13/2001, 09:36 PM

I got to tell ya, that really looks like it will work or at least help... I have 1.5" overflow lines so there's no way I can use 2"..I have room for 4" (I think) .....I'll give it a try

SEABUZZ · #10 04/13/2001, 09:44 PM

try and keep the water line at the middle of the tee.it gives it more room to dicipate the bubbles. you have to clean it every so often as it acts somewhat like a skimmer.

lmo · #11 04/13/2001, 10:48 PM

The best method for adjusting flow rate through a pump is a bypass. This is the standard procedure in chemical plants and mimimizes stress on the motor and cavitation at the pump. The way to achieve it is to put a Tee at the intake and another Tee at the outlet of the pump, you connect these two with a pipe and place a flow control flow inline on that bypass. Since the pressure differential between the intlet an outlet is much greater than the sump and tank water tries to flow this least resistance path. By closing the bypass valve to the desired level you can achieve any flow rate through the normal circulation path. You need to add appropriate number of unions and input side /output side valves to achieve good plumbing practice for future maintenance and pump replacement. Some people try to add a valve to the outler but that is simply asking for trouble. I don't have a drawing package to sketch it. Hope this helps. BTW, I am a chemical engineer that used to do piping design.

DedHed · #12 04/14/2001, 12:23 AM

oh i'm sorry

i misread your post. i thought you said you wanted to ELIMINATE the sump alltogether! lol...silly me

what makes you think you have too much flow? what size tank do you have?

i know that some tanks have 20x the water volume turned over every hour! i have a mak4 and 4 powerheads on my 120-g tank. i figure that's maybe ...i dunno 10x /hour. i think i could stand a little more flow

please exscuse my absent mindedness. you know how it is sometimes!

HTH
Dennis

Desert Fish · #13 04/14/2001, 01:05 AM

Imo, I don't think a bypass would achieve the result wanted here. I don,t believe Golfish wants to reduce the total circulation to his tank - just through the sump to eliminate bubbles.

hughem · #14 04/14/2001, 01:41 AM

Why not just build a PVC "U-tube" with a long strainer intake on the in-tank end and plumb it down to the return pump? You might have to prime it by blowing water up the draw tube with a powerhead, but you probably wouldn't have to do it again as long as the water level didn't drop below the draw tube opening during a water change. Of course, this method wouldn't provide any surface skimming...

The problem with using a conventional overflow is that the down flow mixes water and air, so the return water would be a mess.

golfish · #15 04/14/2001, 08:34 AM

Well,as you know I have posted this on all the BB's and its not going to work. I hate to back off on the pump and reduce flow in the tank (I don't wan't to use PH's)so I'm going to go with Seabuzz'e idea and then add another baffle.......if that doesn't work then I'm going to split the overflow lines and use two poly bags

npaden · #16 04/14/2001, 08:35 AM

Golfish,
Aaron Shelley has a setup similar to what Hughem is describing on his 240. He is running 2 Dolphin SSS 1200 pumps just for circulation in addtion to his regular return pump. The problem that I would see is that it would be hard to get it to work with a single pump running both the regular return and the circulation loop. You might think about dedicating the Ampmaster for circulation and getting a smaller pump to drive the return.
FWIW, Nathan

npaden · #17 04/14/2001, 08:52 AM

Golfish,
How many holes do you have in your overflow boxes?
I ask because one option would be to hook up an intake for the Ampmaster in the bottom of one of the overflows.
Ie. Have the regular drain for the sump on a durso keeping the water level up high and then have a second drain in the overflow going to the ampmaster.
I'm sure glad you had this problem because I think it solved my problem on my new tank. I think I will have 3 holes drilled in each overflow with 1 being the drain for the sump on a durso overflow, 1 being dedicated for a circulation loop and 1 being dedicated for a return. Thinking about it even further, maybe I should get 4 holes drilled in each overflow but not sure how that would affect the strength of the tank.
Oh well, If you wanted to work off of one overflow you could probably still make it work using this method.
FWIW, Nathan

lmo · #18 04/14/2001, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Desert Fish
Imo, I don't think a bypass would achieve the result wanted here. I don,t believe Golfish wants to reduce the total circulation to his tank - just through the sump to eliminate bubbles.

I just didn't want golfish to put a valve in line, in case he tempted to do so. cheers

Desert Fish · #19 04/14/2001, 08:45 PM

Golfish, I'm presently running a 2100gph sump with a Berlin turbo xl skimmer and aerating the the entire sump with a 2 piston Dynamaster. I have absolutely no bubbles returning to the tank. I believe this is due to the tri-pellitized carbon in 3 baffled sections. The carbon seems to force all of the air bubbles to combine out of the water. It sort of looks like a stew pot. I,m not sure, however whether other media could be used with similar effect such as one section filled with sponge, crushed coral etc.

shadetree · #20 04/14/2001, 08:58 PM

golfish,

I have a very similar setup to Seabuzz and it does work very well. It has eliminated 3/4 of all the bubbles from my two overflow lines before the first baffle. My overflow lines enter through the rear of the sump and are submerged. They go through one inverted T that releases most of the bubbles and then go into a T laying on its side, the bubbles exit the top, and the water exits through the bottom.

Scott