radium/20k users over a year-do you still like em??

[golfish]

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair

trying to defeat the bandwagon factor on the boards is pretty difficult though,and maybe i have to talk a little louder to be heard above the band. i just dont want other people to make the same mistake i did -jumping on.

lol, so its off of one wagon and on to another (your current wagon) Go back, read the posts, see how many MORE people are happy with the radiums. These people like me have YEARS of experience.. Good things come along, then better things come along. You call it a "bandwagon" I call it progress

You jumped on the wagon, only problems is you only had 3 wheels...if you would have done your homework you would have known these bulbs run their best on the HQI ballast.

[David Grigor]

Gene, I appreciate trying to make ammends.

I can say that my experiences are not the same as yours. Call me a bandwagoner if you will.

There are other factors involved that go into how a coral will respond. I am sure the additives I use or don't, feeding, maintenance methods, water changes or lack of, the salt you use, all the other possible hardware combinations, wavemaking choices are probably quite different from yours. So to say that everyone will have the same results as you is impossible......

[DT's_Reef]

Moderator assistance requested!

Believe it or not, there's some good information buried in this thread. Let's not make people wade through a bunch of cr*p to find it.

[Gene Wilders hair]

david- youre right -there are many factors -but im not the only one that feels they lost color -and the lighing was the only change-i guess when i switch back -ill know for sure.

golfish -i probably have just as much experience as youreself -and most of the people that responded and liked them havent been using them for more than a year..which is why i put that in the thread title.it takes about that long to get obver the bandwagon factor -and start thinking for youreself. i knew about the whole hqi thing from the get -just cant see spending all that cash and overdriving a bulb-when i had ecxellent results with 10k.

everyone in the end is right about whatever lighting decision they make -hey -its youre tank..

the whole crux of my "argument " against 20k is that it isnt what shallow water sps are exposed to in nature-and 10k has nearly all the blue light the radium has-plus the rest of the spectrum .

i doubt i have much more to add -actually ive been repeating myself for a couple pages now-but only because noone had/has an answer to these "facts".

it would be great if we could get more DIFFERENT peoples opinions-i think weve(those that have already responded) all shared ours -im retiring from this one now

[David Grigor]

To the best of my knowledge nothing replicates. 10K isn't exactly shallow water temp. either.....

Who's to say exactly where yours ( or mine ) corals were collected from. I know I don't.....90% of wild caught I have I can't even tell you which island it came from, let alone depth, or what the original coloration before it was collected was.......

Your never going to get clear answers. The more people respond the more cloudier the issue will get. I am sure personal preference, and believing what you want to believe play a big role also but there are lots of holes in the logic that has been stated here, and far more heresay both for and against 20K than scientific proof.......

[Zoom]

Well i have always use a 250W AB SE bulbs with PC actincs 03 and i like the color of my corals. Last year i visited Mad-drama's home and seen his 450G gorgeous tank he is running four or five 400w Radiums with HQI ballast over the tank ,on the left side of the tank one of the bulbs was different it was very bright but yellow color I asked hey what happen there get to find out the fish splash some water on one of the Radium bulbs and cracked the bulb and Mad-drama put a spare Iwasaki bulb on there let me say this that bulb was two times as bright as the Radiums but yellow. You guess it ? yes i'm now running three 250W Iwasakis with two 96w PC blues over my tank i never see any color lost or browning of my corals the corals and anemone growing like mad I got use to the color of the bulbs i was goin to try the 400W Radiums but maybe i don't like the subdue lighting.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...&postid=996351

[golfish]

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair
-but im not the only one that feels they lost color -and the lighing was the only change-i guess when i switch back -ill know for sure.

Then, you'll have your own experience to share. but it wont mean very much because of the equipment your running. Like I've said and have people here to back me up. Mine and Their corals went through a HUGE color change under the Radium bulb ran on the HQI BALLAST. Note, I said Radium and HQI Ballast (you seem to have miss this every time)

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair

golfish -i probably have just as much experience as youreself -

Ok, how long have you been in the hobby?

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair
most of the people that responded and liked them havent been using them for more than a year..which is why i put that in the thread title.it takes about that long to get obver the bandwagon factor -and start thinking for youreself. i knew about the whole hqi thing from the get -just cant see spending all that cash and overdriving a bulb-when i had ecxellent results with 10k.

This is where you got lost, Here's a quote from my very first post

I've used 400 watt Saki's, Sunburst, Ushio, Radiums and 250 watt DE HQI Ushio and AB bulbs over my 150 gal sps tank....My sps looked best under the Radiums, hands down. I didn't notice any growth rate change, only a huge color change. For me the cost of changing the bulbs is well worth it.

PLease, tell me why we have to use them for a year to KNOW that there's a huge PLUS to them. Obviously there are MANY people who have noticed a plus using them. Why does it have to be one year? What does Bandwagon have to do with better looking coral?

[cal3v]

Just chiming in here I don't think comparing 10,000k being closer to the light corals experience in the wild is much better than 20,000k because its more like 6500k or less in the wild, and no mh's come close to replicating the intensity of the sun. So we should use what we think and does bring out the best colors, which imo is a 10k/20k combo.

[DT's_Reef]

I agree with cal3v.

If I had enough space above my tank, and a BIG chiller, and lived in a state where I'm not charge .15-.25 per kWH, I'd love to add a radium (or two!) to my 2x250w Aquaspacelight set-up.

I'd have the best of both worlds: I'd get intensely colored SPS and fast growth from the 10k's, and better blues and purples with the 20k's.

But, I don't have enough space for all that lighting, nor is it worth the extra cost of electricity, so I'll settle for a couple of 110w VHO actinics (which I did add to my set-up). Not the same as a 20k, but makes the tank look a bit more purple, and it does help purple up the corals a bit more.

[JerseyReef]

golfish - Just a point of clarity. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I know how to accept some else's statement of fact, unlike some others . I believe Radium's run best on e-ballasts, at least according to Sanjay's test. Dr. Mac runs them on e-ballasts as well and the cost savings on electricity makes them a better choice.

[pjr]

Originally posted by DT's_Reef
Regarding the AB 250w bulbs, are you referring to SE or DE?

My bad! I was referring to the SE bulbs...

[DT's_Reef]

pjr -- thanks for that info!

The Aquaspacelight uses a 250w AB DE bulb and it is truly bright. My LFS has 2 tanks that use nothing but 400w radiums (which I have to say look very nice...) run off of PFO ballasts. Although they run very bright for radiums, the 2x250w Aquaspacelight is decently brighter by comparison. Interestingly, after being run for 5 or 6 months, the bulbs have no sign of wear, burn, etc (at least on the glass itself). This surprised me as these lights aren't exactly cool!

It's really a matter of taste though, as the radiums are bright enough for me when driven by the appropriate ballast.

In fact, I was actually thinking of switching to radiums because I was having a buzzing issue with the Aquaspacelight. AquaMedic is resolving it (good customer service!) and it looks like I'll be able to keep my 10k lighting. Some other 10k lighting is a bit too yellow for me, but AquaMedic's 10k DE bulb, driven by their ballast, is the best I've seen so far in terms of not being yellow.

[pjr]

I've heard the same comments about the DE bulbs -- bright and nice neutral color -- but they do run HOT!

[golfish]

Originally posted by JerseyReef
golfish - Just a point of clarity. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I know how to accept some else's statement of fact, unlike some others . I believe Radium's run best on e-ballasts, at least according to Sanjay's test. Dr. Mac runs them on e-ballasts as well and the cost savings on electricity makes them a better choice.

JerseyReef,
I guess that just depends on what "best" means to you..For me best means color and intensity. I have ran the Radiums on the PFO standard ballast, E-ballast and the PFO HQI Ballast...I'd rather have nicer looking sps then save a few penny's on electricty and bulb life....Again, this is my experience.

For me its really not about what somebody else does or says. I could care less. I know what I know from my own experience, not from what I read here.

[mgk65]

mark:

You just have way too much money with all that coke....

mgk

[JerseyReef]

Mark - I wasn't questioning your opinion. In fact, it's very valuable to anyone on this thread who wants to consider all view points. I was purely looking at from an objective standpoint based on numbers.

It would seem based on your last statement, are you placing e-ballasts and standard ballasts in the same category? Didn't Sanjay's test clearly show that HQI's and e-ballast's run this bulb better in terms of PPFD than anything else tested?

I know that David is running his with e-ballasts and so are many others as well, including Dr. Mac and several coral farms. I also know that several people run this bulb on an HQI ballast and couldn't be happier. The point being, both of these ballast's work in producing elevated PPFD levels in this bulb. One isn't better than the other, they both do a great job in overdriving the bulb and causing shorter life for the bulb.

Although pulse starts were not included in Sanjay's test, it's my understanding that this ballast doesn't overdrive the bulb, yet produces the correct spectrum, so life of the bulb is spared. AFAIK, nobody has performed PPFD readings on this ballast/bulb that could be considered accurate when compared to Sanjays testing methods.

Just curious, what was your experience with the e-ballast? You must of tried them. Why did you rule them out?

[MrSandman]

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair
i posted this previously -pulse start ballasts operate radiums at almost exactly the same color and intensity as normal ballasts.

Doh, i meant to say HQI ballasts in my previous post and not pulse start. For the record: "Walt runs his Radiums under standard ballasts and NOT HQI ballasts. Big difference." I hate the fact that i cannot edit a post!

Originally posted by Gene Wilder's hair
ramon -you using pulse starts then?youre tank looks just like mine when just the radium is on -pretty dimm..........

Nope, i run PFO HQI ballasts on my tank. The camera exposure had to be turned down in order to capture the colors as accurately as possible. Otherwise, all i'd get is a washed out bright looking tank.

[Flatlander]

My pulse starts, run my Radiums, way brighter than a normal ballast, {I have a PFO in the center and have tried}. Although by looking at pics, I dont think they are as bright as the HQI or electronically driven Radiums.

So back to the original question.

---- I have no noticable loss after 6 months on pulse starts.

---- I dont think they are as bright as I planned on, but still are intense enough for most any corals.

-----I do run a 400w 65K Iwasaki in the center of the pair of Radiums.

-----Because of my fishroom and open top tank, I run all 3 --400w bulbs pretty high and have a nice mix of colour.
However, during experimentation, when running the bulbs down closer, the light from them is very intense. If I had another single pulse start for the center and ran the 3 Radiums closer, I am absolutely positive it would be sufficient light for any coral.

----I dont run any actinics, so save money there.

----In the long run however, I am not a fan of any bulb that cost so much and barely make a year. Thats the reason I run a center Iwsaki, {at least one bulb has some longevity}.

----But no matter how many times I try run more Iwasaki and less Radium, my tank looks terrible.

----I have still, two new Radiums left. So I have 18 months left with them and after that I will see. Perhaps Iwasakis new Aqua bulb. I am also looking into T-5 lighting or something.

___ I wont switch my 400,s to 10K bulbs, although I am a fan of the German 10K in the 175w version. The bulbs cost to much here,{around $185 Canadian, as compared to $110 for Radiums or Iwasaki bulbs}. Not to mention the problems with the 400,s and I dont think they look all that much better than Iwasaki bulbs or last much longer than my pulse start driven Radiums.

[JerseyReef]

Originally posted by JerseyReef
Although pulse starts were not included in Sanjay's test, it's my understanding that this ballast doesn't overdrive the bulb, yet produces the correct spectrum, so life of the bulb is spared. AFAIK, nobody has performed PPFD readings on this ballast/bulb that could be considered accurate when compared to Sanjays testing methods.

Doug - So my above statement is correct, at least from a first person perspective?

A side note has anyone tried the Ushio 20K 400W version? How does it compare to the 20K Radium?

[wizardgus®]

Man! People do get emotional about lights. But, I got to jump in because we have some of the advanced aquarists on this thread and want to check my observation/idea.

I just recently swapped out a Sunburst on one side of my tank for an Ushio 10,000K. I also added VHO actinic to my fixture. WOW! The corals on that side have really taken off. Now, is it the light? Or were those corals just ready for a growth spurt? Or did my tank just reach a maturation point that is more conducive to SPS growth? I don't know, I doubt we can really narrow it down to the bulbs completely.

I was a little bummed, because the bulb I have on the other side is my Radium. I LOVE my Radium. But, the corals under the Ushio continue to grow better. That side of the tank is much brighter. So.....My Plan: I'm going to run 2 Ushios in the summer, and switch to Radiums in the winter. I mean the suns intensity changes, why shouldn't mine? Then in the winter when I have more viewing time I could get the visual enjoyment I get from the Radiums.

Oh yes, I fire my bulbs with electronic HQI ballasts, all are SE. And as much as I resisted the VHO thing, man I love the effect.

[Lunchbucket]

man people go get worked up on these boards.

i personally LOVE my 20k Radium on my tank. my corals are growing great and the color of the light is wonderful.

for me it isn't all about what the corals need...yes that is priority number one but if the tank looks like a lagoon of pee (65k) i would NOT have a tank. i HIGHLY DOUBT that my corals are not getting what they need w/ a 400w 20K radium on a 20H tank.

i might try to pick up a 10k Ushio but didn't think i could run them on a HQI ballast. would like to just see what i looks like but don't want to spent the 80 bucks...and HATE the color!!

Lunchbucket

[wizardgus®]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
but don't want to spent the 80 bucks...and HATE the color!!

Lunchbucket

Oh come on now, college student? You haven't blown that on a night on the town?

I figure if I get a bulb that I hate the color, it goes into the reef odds & ends box for an emergency. You know, bulb burns out late Friday, at least I have light until replacement arrives.

[golfish]

Originally posted by JerseyReef
Mark - , are you placing e-ballasts and standard ballasts in the same category? Didn't Sanjay's test clearly show that HQI's and e-ballast's run this bulb better in terms of PPFD than anything else tested?

Mike,
Side by side I would say the E-ballast is more intense then the standard and the HQI is more intense then the E-ballast. I don't see a color change between the three ballast, just intensity.

Again, this is just my experience...I'll be setting up another tank in a few months. I may just go with the 1000 watt Radium just because it seems like it would be cheaper overall to run. But then that's another bandwagon...I guess we can't try new things unless you want to take the chance of being called a bandwagoner

[Lunchbucket]

wizardgus - nah i am not much for the down town crowd. only take 20w/ me so i don't blow too much if i EVER go down there! also i just keep my old bulb around just in case i have one go out. shouldn't hurt to run that for a couple days till i get my new one and i don't have a tank that looks like PEE!!!

hell radiums are 80bucks too so why would i spend 80 bucks on another bulb i might not like?

anyone used hellolights.com's xm's or whatever they are...teh 20k 400w...theya re cheap but are the crap?

Lunchbucket

[yrureefing]

I have a radium on my 15. It is ran off and e-ballast. So far I have had it for 6 months and it is still great. In the beginning i didn't like the blue look but then I put a black backround and the bulb whitened up. Now it looks awesome. I will probably try an ushio when this bulb is finished. I find the crisp white more natural.