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#426
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There have been other threads in other forums regarding this and the primary thesis is that the Vortechs are essentially tank killers. Since much of these discussions originate here in this thread, I think this is the place to try to correct that. Whether they become problematic in other tanks remains to be seen. James |
#427
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No need to "correct" that on the users' end. It needs to be corrected by the manufacturer. And the stated gph will have to be lowered or another warning put in the manual.
James, come by for a vsit and put your hand on one. Have you talked to Steve about it? He's been here more than once and commented on them, and at the time, as I do now, I had them running at far less than 100% to keep them cool.
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Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade (Click on the Red House to see my pics garage) |
#428
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I've used all kinds of pumps. Most of which have been cheap Chinese knock offs and NONE of them have been reported to ruin the side of my tank or come anywhere CLOSE to the operating temps the Vortec pumps run at. I'm not on the intellectual level that Jonathan is on but if I was I certainly would have made him happy WAY before this point if I was planning on selling my widget to a community as small as this. A new product will have it's problems for sure but if you hang your customers out to dry I predict a slow and miserable company decline. It's a shame that Ice-Cap which has exemplary customer service should have their name tarnished with Eco-techs. |
#429
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And for the record, I am having a Jolly Roger and staring at my tank. I swear the PBT just mouthed "HELP!"...
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Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade (Click on the Red House to see my pics garage) |
#430
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Those are lots of what if's John. I've never come across such a unique situation such as this....In all honesty I just don't know in regards to those scenarios. James could probably answer that better than I (regarding closed loop etc...). Depending on hole placement it may jeopardize the integrity, that is something during a design phase I would discuss with the manufacture...of course with that said the damage would not have been isolated to one spot. This is all speculation of course....
I am positive that no manufacture worth anything would risk their rep to build a tank with those dims and that thickness of material. When I was designing that 540 (96" x 36" x 36") we talked about I was cleared hot with manufacture to do 3/4 sides only but the length would have to be 1" or there would be no warranty and from a liability stand point I won't sell anything that the manufacture won't stand behind. Jesse |
#431
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Yeah, and before you speculate you should at least see where this "spot of crazing" has occurred. It's not in the middle of the tank for the love!!!!
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#432
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#433
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Proud member of PETA People Eating Tasty Animals |
#434
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#435
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Jonathan,
I make no assumptions on what you have or have not done regarding the moving of the pumps, I went strictly with what you wrote and drew a logical conclusion. As for your relationship with EcoTech, well, that part is beyond my scope. I was simply looking at the crazing issue and the factors behind it, hope you understand As for "correcting" for the pumps on the users end, I was simply stating there was an inverse relationship there, not discerning whose responsibilty it is to point it out nor correct for it. Thank you for the invitation, next time I'm in your area, I will stop by. I have not spoken with Steve about them that I can recall. Sherm71tank, IMO, the tank would not be crazing as it is now without the Vortechs, however the heat from the Vortechs themselves will not craze acrylic unless there is substantial load already on the acrylic. James |
#436
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Isn't there always load on acrylic when used for aquariums?
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Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade (Click on the Red House to see my pics garage) |
#437
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The tank did not craze at all (in the 15 years or whatever the tank had been in existence (at your estimate that is subjective) previous to the Vortech technology) before the Vortechs and is certainly reasonable would not craze without them given the tanks history.
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#438
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Yes there is but that is why they use a certain thickness to withstand that pressure. |
#439
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Easy for me to relax. I don't have 1000+ gallons sitting on heavily crazed acrylic. No problem on my end.
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#440
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There are significant differences Jonathan, you know that
Would you say that if your tank was made from 1/4" acrylic, that it would be even more susceptable to such stresses? same reasoning applies, it's simply more apt to craze under the same load. Call it load relative to material thickness. Quote:
OTOH, you can put a torch to acrylic and it will not craze. A normal load (my definition) is not enough to get acrylic to craze with the simple addition of heat. James |
#441
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Jonathan--DIBS Breeder and Card carrying member of the Square Skimmer Brigade (Click on the Red House to see my pics garage) |
#442
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Acrylic crazing aside. What good is a pump if it can't be run at 100% for fear of overheating?
I agree with Jonathan that the manufacturer needs to rewrite the specs for these pumps. A 3000gph rating is simply false advertisement if it can't be run at 100% IMO. |
#443
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I run the pumps at 100% and no over heating so what are you talking about?
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#444
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On a side note though I have noticed the pumps running cooler w/ the wireless wave drivers.
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#445
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Right because it's not running at 100% continuously which also means you're not getting 3000gph out of those pumps |
#446
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I know that.... but I also ran them before without the WWD continuos no heat issues there.
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#447
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Well they are certainly overheating on Jonathan's tank. I've felt the motor while it's running, it's pretty frigging hot. I could easily imagine a small child being burnt by it if touched. |
#448
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So after all the debate, we still have no conclusion as to why the tank has crazed?
Thanks James for the information that you have provided. I honestly thought that considering the tank has been running for a fair time now that the heat was the problem. Could the age of the acrylic be the problem. I ask as I have no experience with it, but being a builder, I do see a lot of products that were advertised years ago to be great, but time has shown different. This is a topic, especially conserning the vortechs that have quite a few people worried. As you have pointed out alot of people are reading this thread and are getting worried. I definately will not be buying vortechs based on the problems Jonathon has had, based on the fact of the customer service that i'm seeing is not what I would think to be satisfactory, not only in this case either. Not being able to run is 100% is bullsh$t. If the heat issue is not fixed this product should be recalled, regardless if it is not the problem or not. |
#449
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Out of all the posts I've read both on RC and our own club's message board, I've not seen people being treated poorly by EcoTech/IceCap's customer service. Post after post, customer service either replied quickly or the person posted that their issue was resolved. Which is what we would expect. How they deal with this customer - that's what really is being discussed in this thread. It seems several people want EcoTech to buy him a new tank. When Kent's Sea Salt killed off livestock across the nation with the bad batch of salt, they offered replacement salt or some other equipment at the same value. They did not replace lost livestock, nor the money it would cost to replace the livestock. In the end, I do hope everyone involved in this situation is content. However, the court of public opinion really has no bearing on this situation because as was pointed out, we don't know all the facts and we risk being wrong by assuming we do.
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Marc Levenson - member of DFWMAS |
#450
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That said Marc, when it's not you or your tank it's very easy to "not feel the pain". I just can't believe the pumps put out so much heat, that alone is a reason not to purchase. So - are we saying acrylic just doesn't last that long? IMO - even better reason to go glass!
I also hope in the end everyone will be happy but I really don't think a company should drag their feet like this - either fix it now or just say "not our problem" and let their poor customer service put a end to the product.
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ReefArtist Without art I have nothing to say (Click on the little red house and visit my 280+ build) |
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